Need ID help. I'm stumped

[Jperry1466]

No, I'm not buying one of these Chinese tubas, but I am curious as to what they are copies of. I have been under the impression that all Chinese tubas were a copy of something. I ran across these two at a convention and then worked for this company for a while. First is what this dealer calls a 4/4 "Miraphone" BBb copy, looks like copper brass with a silver bell wreath. It actually had a nice sound and response when I tried it, but I don't recognize anything Miraphone about it. I know Schiller also markets one of these. Second is front and rear view of what he calls his 5/4 BBb with a .728?? bore that he sells to schools. He calls it 5/4 because of the big bell and throat. When I asked what it was a copy of, he said it wasn't a copy, but an original design. Ok, but I'm pretty sure that no one goes to China to design a new tuba, but I'm really curious about an ID for both of these. The 5/4 was an easy blowing horn, but it got more of a small, fat sound, rather than a big sound - if that makes any sense at all. I finally decided I am more teacher than salesman, and now I'm working with school tuba players whose directors bought some of these (not from me). I'm just curious what they are.

[Kevbach33]

Top is a copy of a Cerveny 683 (or 783 if rose/red brass) BBb commonly known as the Arion but more often confused for the (slightly larger size with a much larger bore) Piggy.

Bottom is a copy of an Hirsbrunner (HB-192 if I'm not mistaken) rotary BBb. That dealer knows not what he has.

Not all Chinese tuba these days are copies. Take a look at Wessex Tubas, for instance, and you'll see a good handful of models that have no current European or American equivalent. That's not to say they don't take inspiration from models past and present, however.

[arpthark]

Yep, Cerveny Arion: http://www.cerveny.biz/tuben/bbb_tuben/cbb783_4mr.php

and HBS-192:
http://www.hirsbrunner.com/lang/engl/in ... _Tuba.html

The Hirsbrunner clone is also sold by Mack Brass as the Mack Brass model 210. I think Wessex also has a version with a fifth valve called the Lucerne (because Switzerland, I suppose).

[bloke]

There's a different copy of the Arion made in a different factory over there which is put together more nicely.

I'm fond of the one to which I refer.

[Jperry1466]

Top is a copy of a Cerveny 683 (or 783 if rose/red brass) BBb commonly known as the Arion but more often confused for the (slightly larger size with a much larger bore) Piggy.

Bottom is a copy of an Hirsbrunner (HB-192 if I'm not mistaken) rotary BBb. That dealer knows not what he has.

Not all Chinese tuba these days are copies. Take a look at Wessex Tubas, for instance, and you'll see a good handful of models that have no current European or American equivalent. That's not to say they don't take inspiration from models past and present, however.

Thank you; curiosity satisfied. Maybe that's why I was thrown by the claimed .728 bore on the "5/4". Maybe it was customized with that bore?

The Hirsbrunner clone is also sold by Mack Brass as the Mack Brass model 210. I think Wessex also has a version with a fifth valve called the Lucerne (because Switzerland, I suppose).

Thanks. I guess I should have recognized the Mack 210; I had an all-state student who owned one, and I was completely surprised by how well it played.