Talk me into (or out of) selling my Yamaha 822 F for a large EEb

[ekotooba]

Hi all,

I have a BMus and MMus in tuba performance but over the past 15 years have just been playing for fun in community bands.

I currently have a (borrowed) little Cerveny BBb and a Yamaha YFB 822, which I vastly prefer the sound of and use whenever I can, including in concert band settings where most would probably reach for a bigger horn.

My only real beef with the 822 (which is an F tuba beef, not a beef with this horn) is that in “normal” concert band and quintet keys the fingerings can get a little cumbersome.

I’ve played Eb a ton in the past so I know what I would be getting into. So, the question: in your opinion, should I sell the F and get a big Eb (thinking used Willson 3200, Miraphone NS, or similar 5 valve Eb.) I don’t love the Cerveny and am looking for an “almost only” horn.

I’m a smaller woman and prefer bass tubas for my size and lung capacity.

Thanks!

[LeMark]

I love the Norwegian star and the Willson tuba that you mentioned but be aware that the Willson will feel like a small elephant sitting on your lap. Go with the miraphone

[UncleBeer]

Wessex Tubby. Great big ol' Eb! https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/eb-tuba-te665

[ekotooba]

I saw the Wessex, but I admit I am a little gun shy on the Chinese stencils as compared to the more “classic” brands that I am more familiar with. (I’ve been out of the tuba market for about 15 years). I am also concerned about them holding their value, particularly since I live in middle of nowhere Canada, and likely wouldn’t my be able to do extensive testing of different versions of the same model to find a “good” one, and reselling might be more of a challenge if I do not like it. (I know this is a whole other topic…)

My instinct would be to go with a see version of a familiar brand rather than a Chinese horn, but I am happy to hear counter arguments.

[Mary Ann]

I'm a 95# 5'2" woman and the Norwegian Star is just top dog for me. I will admit I have not played a Yamaha 822 F -- but would probably like it, and since I'm a horn player, probably the fingerings would not bother me. The problem with the NStar, other than cost, is you just can't FIND one. No one keeps them in stock because somehow the tuba world has not realized what a spectacular tuba this is, and the Eb guys tend to play Besson compensators, which I'm sure are just fine if you like pistons.

Last night at the first of what I hope will be many meetings of our new TE quartet, we had two NStars on the tuba parts, and both parts came out fine. The 1st parts are often way the hell up there in range (moi) and the 2nd parts are pretty typical contra parts (him.) It works on both. It doesn't play "like a contrabass" down low, but it plays.

[Sousaswag]

I’ve played most of the large Eb’s, save for the elusive PT-22.

Of that small group, the only reasonably in-tune models are the Willsons and the 3+1 models, and the Miraphone rotor model. (Star?)

The MW I owned couldn’t play in-tune if my life depended on it.

I’d compare the Willsons to the 822- if you’re looking for something different playability-wise, they feel about the same.

Personally, unless you have major beef with the F, I don’t understand the need to switch. If it’s a want to try something different, go for it!

Every horn I’ve switched around has had a reason behind it; mostly ergonomics but some like the MW above were pitchy enough that I got tired of it.

I play my big Willson F in brass band and, while there are some pieces with weird fingering patterns, anything is playable with practice.

My choice would be the little Willson 3400C. I’d sell my first-born child for one of those tubas. Be aware, Willsons don’t come up used often at all.

Did I answer your question? No, probably not. But I hope I have some helpful pointers!

[ekotooba]

Personally, unless you have major beef with the F, I don’t understand the need to switch. If it’s a want to try something different, go for it!

Yeah, I feel like I am just getting back in shape and having a “is the grass greener….?” moment here. I should probably just practice my low range more on the F and not create problems that don’t exist.

I really can’t overstate how great the sound is on the 822 - it’s a magic horn. There’s no real reason to switch things up.

[jtm]

... The problem with the NStar, other than cost, is you just can't FIND one. No one keeps them in stock because somehow the tuba world has not realized what a spectacular tuba this is, and the Eb guys tend to play Besson compensators, which I'm sure are just fine if you like pistons.

Last night at the first of what I hope will be many meetings of our new TE quartet, we had two NStars on the tuba parts, and both parts came out fine. The 1st parts are often way the hell up there in range (moi) and the 2nd parts are pretty typical contra parts (him.) It works on both. It doesn't play "like a contrabass" down low, but it plays.

So, given Norwegian Star scarcity, which of the half dozen Miraphone F tubas is most like it?

[jtm]

The firebird and the Bel Canto are two if my favorite F tubas

[cktuba]

I know a lot of people don't like the 822. But I used to own one and I loved it. To me, it's the most EEb-like of F tubas (or at least it was in the 90's). Maybe try a Blokepiece Imperial on it... before going to the expense of a new instrument.

[ekotooba]

I know a lot of people don't like the 822. But I used to own one and I loved it. To me, it's the most EEb-like of F tubas (or at least it was in the 90's).

Mine has a 1000xx serial number, which I understand to mean it was an early version.

The other F tubas I played extensively were a Miraphone 181 (worst horn I ever owned - the C in the staff and everything else on that partial were unplayably sharp, bottom end muddy), and a PT-15, which was great. The 822 is hands down my favorite F tuba I’ve played. I kind of wish they made a comparable Eb version. That could probably get me to switch.

Why is the real answer always more practice…? ;)

[Sousaswag]

Fun answer and continuation to the thread

The most Eb-like F tubas are the ones from Willson and imo the MW 2250. The 822 is in there too.

I get the appeal of Eb- trust me, as someone who has owned way too many tubas in the last several years, they have *marginally* better low registers, the weird notes are just moved down a step.

Instead of C the weird note is Bb. You trade a sharp low G for a low F if non-comp. And so on.

Of the large, 5v Eb’s, my choice would be the lesser-known Willson 3400C. And it’s smaller and has less pitch problems than anything from MW/B&S.

Of the reasonably priced, available Eb models, your best bet is the Miraphone. Don’t mess with the MW 2141 if you can’t play it first.

Big F vs Big Eb- just about the same thing. You’re still going to have weird notes, and several out-of-tune ones you’re going to need to pull slides for. No different than an 822.

Maybe this is for a different thread, but this is the type of bass tuba I prefer. My Willson rotor F still has out of tune notes, but boy is it easy to play.

If you’re wanting to try Eb, go for it! If the 822 isn’t for you, feel no shame in trying something else. That’s half the fun of having so many choices!

[Bob Kolada]

I've played one each MW rotary and piston Eb tubas, they both played very well but have a darker tone. Both of their ergos were unworkable for me but I bet I'm a foot and a half taller than you so they'll probably fit you.

I played a piston Hirsbrunner Eb at the Army SOM. It was ok, kinda stiff and fairly whacky intonation. IIRC low C and in the staff C had like a 3" different slide pull. My instructor said all the old guys at our concert were impressed by my slide calisthenics. There's a picture somewhere of me playing it in a quintet at the previous group's graduation; everyone else was in greens but since I didn't have mine yet I was in ACUs with my feet sticking out and crossed because of the short chairs.

The Willsons are pretty heavy, even the smaller one. That played great and was very charming but didn't seem like it would work in a larger group, and I've been playing small Eb's for years. I met Marty Erickson at the Midwest conference and saw him play an Eb scale on his horn without using any valves.

Wild card- I played a 5 rotary valve St. Pete Eb years ago that was fantastic. Good intonation, fantastic low range and it really felt like I was playing a piston tuba with the rotary sound.

What mp are you using OP? I've tried a bunch of things over the years but always ended up back with a Bach 18 for everything except cimbasso. I kinda want to play my PT48 in a big bass tuba now though; I bet it would be like sticking a contrabass trombone mp in a bass trombone (frigging awesome fun btw).
I played a Miraphone Petrushka my last couple years in the Army, it worked fine in concert band even though I didn't feel that particular horn had the best low register. The one I played at the Army conference was excellent, maybe mine needed a valve alignment. I played it on Good Morning Chicago and we laughed watching it later, Mark next to me was playing a PT6 (short guy with a big tuba) with a music stand and I (tall guy with a small tuba) was in 'jazz mode' with the tuba on a strap and holding music for the one or two tunes I didn't have memorized.

[bloke]

I strongly recommend (and would even wager) that you do as you will.