Miraphone C models 88 and 86 5th valve current circuit configuration

[bloke]

Back when Miraphone bowed to the popularity of the shorter length of 5th valve circuit, they came up with a "dipsy-doodle" configuration - specifically for the C models 86 and 88.
From the front, it looks very similar to the original design, with a lower slide hidden on the back side - which must be removed to service some of the rotors.

I suppose it's all well-and-good, but why not (particularly as the 5th C circuit is going to be shorter than the shorter 5th B-flat circuit) just configure this circuit as with Miraphone B-flat rotary euphoniums and B-flat/E-flat tubas (built at least for the past decade) ?

I'm aware that Roger Bobo liked having a left-hand thumb trigger for his 5th slides, but (correct?) almost no one else.
The current dipsy-doodle config keeps the mass down for such a rig, but (again) I don't see anyone doing that.

Would anyone particularly object to this 5th valve circuit wrap config' - on the 86 and 88 C models...??




They're already doing it with their C "Bruckner" model, as well as the C 85 model:




I've installed a few of those C model 86 and 88 over-under 5th valves...I could do it in half the time if they would redesign it to resemble all of the examples above...particularly if they PRE-ASSEMBLED and (even) LACQUERED it.

[matt g]

Would that impact any layout jigs they use in production? Basically, are they keeping that layout with the 86 and 88 in case someone wants the 2-3 combo 5th?

[bloke]

They would set aside some stuff (such as a dogleg) but - knowing them - most of the stuff they would set aside is also used for other stuff. It's just a way less complicated way to do things. The only thing that I would do that they don't do (with all the pictured models, above) would be to make the loop-over part into another slide. I have found that doing that allows me to push the fifth slide in all the way in, pull out the slide on the over-loop part, and tune most of the really low pitches above the fundamental with that slide all the way in, which allows room for pulling that slide out in order to play what would be low d on the C tubas, because the only viable/approximate fingering for that is 5234 which (widely known) is quite sharp. My particular instrument formerly required that that over-loop 5th slide be pulled out pretty far for most of the low pitches, and that didn't leave room for pulling it out to tune it for 5234.

... of course, rotary tubas are only for schools, whereas piston tubas are professional, so all of this is moot.

=============

I played a brass quintet job Sunday, and the first player was playing a rotary C trumpet. I was playing a rotary tuba, the trombonist was playing a trombone with an F attachment, and of course the horn player was playing a rotary valve instrument. The second trumpet player had a piston trumpet.
In my horrible attempt at a German accent, I pointed out the piston valves, and asked them if they were planning on playing some "jazz-music". Believe it or not, they got the joke.

[jtm]

Miraphone does still offer the longer 5th valve circuit on new 86 and 88 tubas. Maybe it's easier to support both with the current setup.

[bloke]

Maybe not.

That goofy little piece (which heads sideways and then ducks into the back of the instrument) is different on that really old style long thing compared with the standard shorter one, now... and swapping one for the other (and getting them pointed exactly right for either configuration) is a little bit of a nuisance.

Again, that little bent piece - though one may appear to be the same as the other (were you put mount both of them on a paint shaker and turn it on) isn't the same bend. However, the rotor would be the same for any.

(meant jokingly, yet possibly true...??)
I suspect that the people here who keep bringing up the older long 5th valve circuit and how wonderful it is are (regardless of the actual thread topic ) are the same ones who already have it. ie. I've never heard anyone paying money to convert a newer style one to that longer older style.

[bisontuba]

Now have a fifth valve on a rotary horn AFTER the tuning slide...aka piston horns....

[Norm Pearson]

I've never heard anyone paying money to convert a newer style one to that longer older style.

I've converted fifth slides to the longer (proper) configuration on at least 6 tubas

[bloke]

I have NOW heard of it.