I stopped at a local yard sale that had some brass instruments and decided to pick up a couple for very cheap. One of these is what I believe to be a Conn 6D double horn.
From what I can garner, the serial number points to 1948 yet the bell is stamped "C. G. CONN LTD / USA," and not Elkhart, which makes me think this might be an Abilene horn from the 1970s with a recycled serial number? Any other way to tell? Some chatter online about conical vs. cylindrical rotors?
Aside from a bell crinkle t's in great shape, and I am probably going to offer it up for sale here and on eBay for fairly cheap (under $400) once it's fixed up, if anybody wants it. (ref: condition similar to this but for significantly cheaper)
off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
-
arpthark
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
- Location: Southeastern Connecticut
- Has thanked: 956 times
- Been thanked: 1074 times
- Contact:
-
bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19342
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3854 times
- Been thanked: 4104 times
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
Yeah, those rotors were typically pretty crappy, and other ways to tell for sure are that the bell flare seam connecting the flare to the stem is probably closer to where the bell is two and a half inches or so in diameter versus up higher where the belt diameter is smaller. Another way to tell that it's Abilene is the crappy completely cylindrical and likely loose rotor bearings which will feature no lip.
-
Finetales
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 7:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 53 times
- Contact:
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
I think it is actually a 1948. Elkhart 6Ds always had a very plain engraving (usually saying C.G. Conn LTD Elkhart USA), and some don't say Elkhart. Here's a 1953 with the same engraving.
If it is actually a 1948 and the rotors have enough compression left to play well, I will 100% buy it from you. I used to have a 1938 6D that I miss dearly!
If it is actually a 1948 and the rotors have enough compression left to play well, I will 100% buy it from you. I used to have a 1938 6D that I miss dearly!
I mostly play the slidey thing.
-
arpthark
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
- Location: Southeastern Connecticut
- Has thanked: 956 times
- Been thanked: 1074 times
- Contact:
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
The case, et al., definitely seem more 1948-ish than 1970s-ish.Finetales wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:30 am I think it is actually a 1948. Elkhart 6Ds always had a very plain engraving (usually saying C.G. Conn LTD Elkhart USA), and some don't say Elkhart. Here's a 1953 with the same engraving.
If it is actually a 1948 and the rotors have enough compression left to play well, I will 100% buy it from you. I used to have a 1938 6D that I miss dearly!
Let me check the rotors with calipers to see if they are conical. That seems to be the biggest giveaway.
Compression is great. I'll post some pics shortly.
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
-
arpthark
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
- Location: Southeastern Connecticut
- Has thanked: 956 times
- Been thanked: 1074 times
- Contact:
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
@Finetales, you are right. Rotors are conical, other clues suggest '48.
These pics were taken mid-reassembly, but the gist is there:
These pics were taken mid-reassembly, but the gist is there:
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
-
Finetales
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 7:49 pm
- Location: Los Angeles
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 53 times
- Contact:
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
In that case I will gladly buy that when you sell it!
I mostly play the slidey thing.
-
arpthark
- Posts: 3923
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:25 pm
- Location: Southeastern Connecticut
- Has thanked: 956 times
- Been thanked: 1074 times
- Contact:
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
Would much rather deal with known TF folks than random eBayers and have to deal with the fees and taxes and all that. I'll send you a PM.
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
-
bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19342
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3854 times
- Been thanked: 4104 times
Re: off-topic: Conn horns (actual horns, not tubas)
There are more than a few old Elkhart horns with replacement bells. Particularly when they first were owned by schools, surplused (such as due to a trashed bell), picked up by someone else, received replacement Abilene bells, and were refinished.
That horn definitely looks refinished, and Abilene parts prices were stupid cheap. Their pricing was so dumb that I could buy a complete finished Conn 88h trombone bell section, a complete finished Conn 88h trombone playing slide, an aftermarket case, and only have about 400 bucks in the outfit... only being a repair shop that could buy "parts" from them, and not even being an authorized Conn dealer...
To just give you another example of how stupid cheap their pricing was, I could buy 88h and bass trombone playing slide tubes for six or seven dollars. Even at that time, I realized how stupid cheap that was, and - to this day - I still have a few of those tubes left, as I bought a buttload of them when I discovered what they cost... and yes, I sold quite a few put-together 88h trombones as well...
... so don't discount the possibility of someone maybe spending 60 or 70 bucks on a new replacement bell before putting a new finish on it. Look and find the bell seam and you will have your answer, if the rest of it is Elkhart.
Again, if the rotor bearings have lips, they are Elkhart.
By the way, people don't really give a crap if a 6D has a replacement bell, but they certainly do if it is an 8D. What they're going to give a crap about is whether the valves are shot or not.
me...?? I've never seen any Elkhart French horn bells that did not bear the word "Elkhart" on them... but I'm just one person.
That horn definitely looks refinished, and Abilene parts prices were stupid cheap. Their pricing was so dumb that I could buy a complete finished Conn 88h trombone bell section, a complete finished Conn 88h trombone playing slide, an aftermarket case, and only have about 400 bucks in the outfit... only being a repair shop that could buy "parts" from them, and not even being an authorized Conn dealer...
To just give you another example of how stupid cheap their pricing was, I could buy 88h and bass trombone playing slide tubes for six or seven dollars. Even at that time, I realized how stupid cheap that was, and - to this day - I still have a few of those tubes left, as I bought a buttload of them when I discovered what they cost... and yes, I sold quite a few put-together 88h trombones as well...
... so don't discount the possibility of someone maybe spending 60 or 70 bucks on a new replacement bell before putting a new finish on it. Look and find the bell seam and you will have your answer, if the rest of it is Elkhart.
Again, if the rotor bearings have lips, they are Elkhart.
By the way, people don't really give a crap if a 6D has a replacement bell, but they certainly do if it is an 8D. What they're going to give a crap about is whether the valves are shot or not.
me...?? I've never seen any Elkhart French horn bells that did not bear the word "Elkhart" on them... but I'm just one person.