Sovereign BBb (or, "it's not too late to compensate")

[splat]

hi forum

(sorry this is a bit targeted to brass bandies)

does anyone have experience with newer sovereign BBb basses made in the past ~10 years or so? i've played one from the 80s that was really bad, and one from the early 2000s that was quite good.

has anything changed much? i see that the current models are being advertised as 'lighter than earlier versions'.

i know the 'neo' tubas are well regarded by some - i played with one for a year or so and found the tone and intonation to not be as good as a sovereign.

if you were going to buy a new compensating BBb (or a set of 2 x EEb and 2 x BBb for your band) to play proper good championshipish brass band repertoire, what would you be going for?

thoughts appreciated and jokes tolerated (as long as they're reasonably funny - otherwise you'll be reported to forum admins for being boring)

thanks!

[2nd tenor]

This is a predominantly North American forum and they mostly seem to use non-comp instruments so you might be asking in the wrong place. That said a BBb player for a top class UK Band (Fodens IIRC) sometimes drops in here, under the name of Andycat. Perhaps someone will point you towards him or be otherwise able to help.

[andycat]

HI, slightly biased here, but if I were buying a new set today, I'd go Neo all the way. Late 80's/early 90's EEb and BBb were the very best, before they moved away from the models based on the Imperials.

Over here there's a clamour for 19" bell Imperial versions of both flavours.

But new, off the shelf, it's Neo for reliability unless you can physically play and check each Besson before purchase.

[bloke]

To me, the ones that were older (B-flats) offered better tuning. I have a detachable bell instrument from probably the 60s. I can get my really old 17" Yamaha 201 (copy of that upright bell version) detachable bell (outfitted with a genuine Besson collar) next to the upper bow when I substitute it for the 24 inch recording bell, but I also have a 19 inch bell which I have also fitted with a Besson collar, and it jams against the upper bow too much on that detachable bell instrument, so I'm sort of stuck with the 17-in upright bell - which is the same exact taper as Besson, but made by Yamaha. Truth be told, the 24-inch recording Bell sounds the best to me and to other tuba players who have remarked. It also puts out an unbelievable tremendous amount of sound for outdoor venues or a more audible sound - when not playing tremendously loud - in low-ceiling indoor venues. It's only flaw is that E-flat and the staff is quite sharp.1-3 helps.

For those who know that I also have an E-flat Besson recording bass, I'm referring to a B-flat that I have - which I don't discuss very often.

Also, all four of the bells fit both instruments.

The problem with so many of the older and better in tune B-flats is that their valves are worn out, and top action compensating pistons are the very most expensive to rebuild. Personally, I've never seen any of these instruments with pistons that were rebuilt in the UK, so I'll have to wonder if anyone over there does that sort of work.

edit/note:
I have NO - n.o. - experience playing with brass bands, so I have no idea which of the better-tuning vs. broader-sound thing (or other aspects) is/are more desirable in regards to playing in such an ensemble...but its not as if any of these instruments are only suitable for brass band playing.

[splat]

thanks for your replies!

i am delighted with my old 3 valve imperial BBb with a 17 inch bell...i just want 4 valves and a 19 inch bell (i wouldn't say no to a 24inch bell, like on a conn 25j). i've never seen an imperial in that configuration, they must be quite rare...if anyone has one for sale let me know! i will have to get myself somewhere to check out the latest versions of neo and sovereigns and see if they've improved from the last versions i played.

andy - thanks for your wisdom. tell russell and marika hello from australia, and congrats on your good results over the weekend.

bloke - i whole-heartedly recommend heading along to a traditional uk-instrumented brass band if there are any close by. if there are none close, then i reckon treat yourself to a trip to the uk! trad-uk brass bands are exceptionally fun, and i think they sound the best when everyone is using 'matching' instruments for tone and blend. if you get a selfie with andy i will be most impressed.

[humBell]

... jokes tolerated...

If my jokes were rated taller, um, would i need to compensate? (Perhaps not amongst the merry jests of Hugh Ambrose, but i felt it inconsiderate not to respond to the invitation, such as it was... i am content.)

Sorry i have such low standards that all Bessons are better than i deserve*. Consequently i have no useful input to offer.



*I am resisting an urge to paraphrase the Cat who walked by himself...

[BramJ]

So what models BBb Sovereign have there been? Our band has a 994GS from I think '96 and another stamped just 994. I think it is a bit older, I have to check the serial. It is built slightly different, the top bow is not as close to the bell as on my 994GS

[andycat]

Imperial/New standard etc up to late 70's/early 80's
992 from early 80's
994 late 80's
994GS late 90's on
recent ones no idea!

Imps/992 best IMHO, but a good early 994 is better than any of the shorter fatter ones (GS onwards)

[BramJ]

The imperials and 992 have the "inner upper bow" above the valve cluster, right? like the Yamaha Neo

The other BBb player is leaving the band soon, so I can give the older 994 a try
it does have some persistent sticky valve issues but I sure that can be solved with some service and more regular playing

[andycat]

The imperials and 992 have the "inner upper bow" above the valve cluster, right? like the Yamaha Neo

That's correct, with a false handbrace