(FIVE rotary) Meinl-Weston 195 and Miraphone 497

[bloke]

Does Meinl-Weston offer a 5-rotor version version of the 195?
Has anyone bought one? Are there pictures? Is there a 5-rotor one in the USA?

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Miraphone LISTS a 5-rotor 497, but there is no picture.
I tend to wonder if they've built one.
copy/paste: Has anyone bought one? Are there pictures? Is there a 5-rotor one in the USA?

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This is just a bull$h!t post - because I won't be seeking either to purchase...but (well...??) aren't a significant portion of posts/threads, here (regardless of who generated them) also b.s.?

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observation:
The 497 mouthpipe appears to be completely vertical in the "add-a-5th-rotor" area, but the 195 mouthpipe appears as though it would require (subtle) alteration in order to accommodate a 5th rotor.

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something else:
I've played a 98 extensively, but only played a 195 (rotary) briefly. Is there anyone who has played BOTH models EXTENSIVELY ?
' any (informed) comments on playing condition comparisons ?

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196 "Fasolt" - claims to (simply) be a larger bell pancake version of 195, but mouthpipe shape is not the same as 195.

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troll (for Americans)

It's coming fast, whether-or-not you are one of those who come along.

[PlayTheTuba]

I've tooted both models at the Army Band Conferences in the past. I haven't played them extensively. If you define extensive more than say a couple of minutes or toots in the room.

However, wouldn't the Meinl Weston 197 be a more apt, apples to apples comparison? Or even the Meinl Weston 196 Fasolt? At least size wise?

Although the 195 Fafner is waaay more common and easier to find or to try out.

Plus, reminding myself the rotory Meinl Weston BBb's that a new 97 4/4 tuba exists with it's super circular leadpipe... I wonder if they'll bring that to the Army Conference one day ...

Plus, I'm a big fan of Miraphone's and B&S's recent (or not) BBb's. Not as much with the Meinl's except maybe the 18. That I've tried or tooted on so far. Would like to try a 197 one day. Probably not my cup of tea, but still would be nice.

[bloke]

Meinl-Weston 197 (not to be confused with Miraphone 497) features a much smaller bell throat/flare/pancake than the other models listed, and (second/third-hand reports - I've never played one) is said to be more squirelly (a very old design - copying an extremely old design) intonation-wise.

When much younger (and first saw a picture of the 197 in a brochure), I assumed that they had goofed up - and cut off the top part of the picture in the paste-up... nope.

[bloke]

back to the topic...

I'm curious if anyone has seen FIVE rotor versions (unicorns?) of any of these...

[LargeTuba]

I've seen a couple 5 valve Fafners with a dependent 5th valve (the 5th valve is located within the 4th valve circuit)

Also, the Fafner piston looks to be 5 valves.

[PlayTheTuba]

Meinl-Weston 197 (not to be confused with Miraphone 497) features a much smaller bell throat/flare/pancake than the other models listed, and (second/third-hand reports - I've never played one) is said to be more squirelly (a very old design - copying an extremely old design) intonation-wise.

Neat, didn't realize that the 197 isn't as big as I thought it was. I know the bell lacks flare from the pictures, which I guess makes it more "German style" in its design.

[bloke]

I believe they're really quite tall, but look like someone took a hacksaw to their bells... probably the most uber Kaiser of German Kaiser tubas...

Regardless of where it's placed, I'm still interested in seeing a picture of ĺ fifth rotor on either a rotary 195 or a rotary 497.

[bort2.0]

No photo, but a description here:

viewtopic.php?t=1652

[bort2.0]

@pjv has a 5 valve 497:



viewtopic.php?t=6691

[bort2.0]

Here's a Fafner with 5 valves, Dave Kurtz of the Netherlands Philharmonic. Bunch of videos of him...

[bloke]

Thanks very much.

The fifth rotor on the 497 looks to be aftermarket.

[bort2.0]

Thanks very much.

The fifth rotor on the 497 looks to be aftermarket.

What's the tell?

Only thing that looks kinda sus to me is that the space between the 5 and 1 rotors is greater than the space between all other adjacent rotors

[bloke]

Precisely. The space. It looks like someone reused the ferrule that connects the mouthpipe to the first valve to connect the fifth valve to the first valve. That ferrule is long. I think it scares some people to heat that ferrule and coax it off of the rotor knuckle, because they're afraid they're going to damage something.

[Ricardo]

Why have 5 when you can have 6! This is what I previously owned, since sold and now play a Neo Bb in brass band.
From the ad when I sold it:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

I emailed Bob Tucci, whom-helped design the Fafner and had Ed Diefes install a flat half tone dependant valve into the 4th valve circuit,so 4+2 can be played 4+5 and not be sharp. Also installed is the optional Meinl Weston 6th valve, which I got from Bob Tucci. It is a dependant flat whole tone. So if your familiar with a 6th valve F tuba then this has the same setup, only dependant. Why did I do this? For playing in brass band you can play chromatically all the way down to the pedal - no slide pulling required. Or you can play the various orchestral excerpts without slide pulling.

[joshwirt]

There is a 5-valved 195/2 here in Chicago......it is SPECTACULAR. The 5th was added later with factory parts.

Also there are two of the new 97/2's in use in Vienna....Paul Halwax plays a 4-valve and Christoph Gigler has a 5 valved one

[cjk]

Thanks very much.

The fifth rotor on the 497 looks to be aftermarket.

IIRC, that was actually the factory MW “solution” for a rotor Fafner 5th valve, at least at one time. Iirc, they’d sell you one separately, too.

[cjk]

…

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196 "Fasolt" - claims to (simply) be a larger bell pancake version of 195, but mouthpipe shape is not the same as 195.

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….

I thought the Fasolt was Fafner body + big side of bottom bow scaled up + a 2165 bell. I’m no expert.

[bloke]

I know very little about which parts bins supplied parts for which models/versions.

[PlayTheTuba]

Edit: I realized it might be more appropriate in this thread instead.
viewtopic.php?t=7730

An admin can feel free to delete this particular post. Thanks