Blockheads

[ronr]

No, not the Laurel and Hardy movie. I’m working on ideas to protect the valves on my Packer 179b, and I recall my dad fashioning a block of wood that fit over the valve stems. Wondering if anyone has experienced that sort of fix, or if you have other ideas. It’s in a Cronkhite side opening bag.

[UncleBeer]

Hmm: that seems more like a big opportunity to bend things you don't want bent. I'd avoid. My 2 cents.

[bloke]

I think I might recommend bending a strip of aluminum in the shape of a sharp-cornered C, maybe contact cement a 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick strip of foam rubber on the inside of it, push it down over the valve stems and buttons to hold them down, and then hold it in place with a fairly tight fitting elastic band. The thing to do is to somehow hold the valves in the down position, so the stems and buttons don't become targets.

Yes, all these different brands of instruments with top mounted guides (MANY) feature an area at the bottom of the stem which is probably a little bit too thin, but even big fat beefy 6 mm valve stems can get bent, even though they might not have as much of a propensity to break.

Steel valve stems wouldn't cost any more than brass ones though the tooling to make them would need to be more expensive. Steel valve stems would also not weigh any more than brass ones do. Nickel silver or bronze valve stems would also be a little bit more resistant to bending and breaking than brass ones, but almost everyone makes them of brass.

I'm pretty sure that a gent down south of me and I have both come around to the way of thinking that - even though we are both getting older, our knees aren't what they were, and our lower backs aren't what they were - that it's really not a very good idea to carry tubas around in lightly-padded sacks. I've stopped doing it, and I assure you that - particularly at my age - it's not easy to manhandle a model 98 Miraphone tuba and it's very large and heavier-than-the-,tuba Jakob Winter case, but I'm doing it.

[York-aholic]

I designed a 3D printed one for a B&M YorkMaster valve set that lives on my York 712. It fits over the finger buttons and valve stems and the holes are sized to fit over the upper valve caps but would only go downward so far befor a lip touched the top edge of the top caps. The other side (facing the side of the gigbag) is sort of rounded (is ovaled a real word?) over.

It worked fine and protected the sensitive bits perfectly but in the end, I got a bit tired of it.

IMG_0083.jpeg (31.61 KiB) Viewed 2315 times

IMG_0084.jpeg (29.46 KiB) Viewed 2315 times

Those slots were in case I needed a little Velcro strap but it held itself on just fine.

[Snake Charmer]

For my 5 Berlin valve F tuba I made a sturdy cardboard box fitting over the valve block. Cheap and 10 minutes work

[donn]

Depends somewhat on what you're protecting against, I guess, but cardboard or similar seems like a good bet if the design is right. I'm picturing something that prevents the valve stems from snagging as you pass through a doorframe. That's what I worry about with front (side) valves. A relatively broad surface that presents a more oblique angle to the obstruction will deflect the doorframe rather than snag on it, deflecting the force. If it's a little flexible, so much the better - you don't want to punch on any other part of the tuba either, and the valves are all set up to handle force in the direction of their springs. Tape a big piece of cardboard in the bag and see what you think.

[Snake Charmer]

It fits snugly over the valve casings 1 and 5 and the bag holds it in this place when closed. I made it from 3/8" cardboard, so the valve stems will hopefully never have unwanted contact with the bad world around. The bag is a custom-made Couesnon, fitting like a glove.

Bags sv.jpg (116.46 KiB) Viewed 2286 times

[UncleBeer]

Decades ago, Donna Altieri supplied her tuba bags with sort of 'bra' with velcro straps to keep the valves depressed. Seemed like a good system, although the velcro won't last forever. She might have some left over in inventory, or you could probably have a seamstress (can you say that any more?) or luggage shop cobble you one together.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

I would reemphasize coming up with some strategy of holding the valves in the down position. I've even seen hard cases that developed indentions where the finger buttons are, and those indentions would grab the finger buttons, thus bend valve stems when tubas would move up and down even a half an inch inside a hard case, and those delicate-style valve stems (which hold top mounted plastic guides in place) would eventually snap - simply from that movement over and over.

With all of these school-owned tubas which are made like that, sadly I've had to become an expert male piston stem threads extractorist. It's not fun. With those instruments, I'm sure it's a combination of cases occasionally being used and grabbing the buttons, but probably mostly just whacking finger buttons against door frames.

[bloke]

I just thought of something even simpler:

To the UPPER 1 inch of the 1st and 4th valve casings, contact-cement on a 1 inch (ok...3/4" x 3/4") square piece of "hook" velcro to the facing-upward top one inch of the #1 casing and to the facing-downwards top one inch of the #4 casing.

Cut a strip of LOOP velcro that will just make it to each of those two squares of "hook" velcro when the the valves are completely DEPRESSED.

[bort2.0]

On your next Target run, see if there's anything like this that would work.



Cheap
Comes in a bunch of sizes
Easily replaceable
Sturdy enough, but won't dent/scratch the horn

And for a side loader, it's real easy -- horn in, container on top of valves, then zip it up. No need for velcro or anything to hold it in place.

[ronr]

I just thought of something even simpler:

To the UPPER 1 inch of the 1st and 4th valve casings, contact-cement on a 1 inch (ok...3/4" x 3/4") square piece of "hook" velcro to the facing-upward top one inch of the #1 casing and to the facing-downwards top one inch of the #4 casing.

Cut a strip of LOOP velcro that will just make it to each of those two squares of "hook" velcro when the the valves are completely DEPRESSED.

This is it! Trying it tomorrow and I’ll report in.

Still thinking about your thoughts on hard cases, though…

[jonesbrass]

Decades ago, Donna Altieri supplied her tuba bags with sort of 'bra' with velcro straps to keep the valves depressed. Seemed like a good system, although the velcro won't last forever. She might have some left over in inventory, or you could probably have a seamstress (can you say that any more?) or luggage shop cobble you one together.

This is exactly what I use. Holds the pistons down and prevents accidental bending of the valve stems. I played so many screwed up pistons early in life that I never played anything but rotaries for years. Have never had a problem using the Altieri piston protector strap.

[bort2.0]

Decades ago, Donna Altieri supplied her tuba bags with sort of 'bra' with velcro straps to keep the valves depressed. Seemed like a good system, although the velcro won't last forever. She might have some left over in inventory, or you could probably have a seamstress (can you say that any more?) or luggage shop cobble you one together.

This is exactly what I use. Holds the pistons down and prevents accidental bending of the valve stems. I played so many screwed up pistons early in life that I never played anything but rotaries for years. Have never had a problem using the Altieri piston protector strap.

I had one of these, too, which came with my Miraphone 1291 w/Alteiri bag. The first time I took the tuba to a rehearsal, I used the valve cover and the separate bell cap. When I got home, I tossed them in the storage space under the stairs and never used them again. Nice ideas and well made, but too much of a hassle.

Frankly, the top-close drawstrings were more problematic for the valve stems than any force on the front of the bag!

[bloke]

I understand how doing things is more trouble than not doing them, but so is me deciding to only use hard cases from now on - even though I'm getting old. It's a big hassle to carry my huge tuba which is fairly lightweight for a huge tuba at 24 lb, but the case probably weighs 35 lb or more, because it's a really stout Jakob Winter molded case.

I suspect that a whole bunch of us aren't aware how much our tubas in their bags get bounced around in our automobiles or carrying them through doorways, because bags don't really make any noise, but when I started using cases I started noticing that they get jostled around because cases do make noise, and that began explaining where all the mystery dents (ie. bags) had been coming from. There's nothing like the truth to get some people triggered or feeling indignant or thinking "yeah but I blah blah blah", but as heavy as hard cases are, if somebody doesn't like dents, they should look at hard cases and figure out how to deal with them. My knees and hips aren't what they used to be and my physical strength isn't what it used to be - but I'm dealing with this stuff, because I'm tired of taking dents out of my instruments, and I can't imagine how frustrating would be for people who don't know how to take dents out of their own instruments like I do.

I see people carrying their cellos around in these fiberglass or c-fiber cases. None of them use bags. Their cellos are probably worth anything from $20,000 to $100,000 in various orchestras where I work, and I suspect the basses range in value within the same range, but all those bass people use bags, and it's just because cases would be awkward, but it would scare the hell out of me to put a $50,000 bass in a freaking bag... and I hear horror stories about terrible damage to basses involving tops, necks, head stocks, etc.

The tuba community corporate mentality is different most other instrument groups corporate mentality. I just don't see any bowed stringed instrument players talking about how their $900 cello "plays really good, considering the price". (They don't even look at $900 cellos.) I don't see any of them looking towards Chinese budget-priced instruments, and frankly not woodwind players either, and also not trumpet players and also not very many trombone or horn players who are serious about what they're doing... and it's not because some carefully chosen Chinese instruments that are cheap in price aren't really good, it's just that they won't even consider low priced instruments made in Asia. They just wont.

Tuba players are different from all the rest; we just are, and I guess that's why we're (corporately) perfectly happy with carrying our stuff around in padded sacks - knowing full well that we're going to damage our instruments in them.

... I just watched a Tucker Carlson (completely apolitical, but - rather - a commentary on the human psyche) discussion of how people only seem to become really uncomfortable when somebody just says the plain truth... and how educational institutions are teaching impressionable young people that there really is no such thing as the complete truth, and there really is no such thing as complete falsehoods. Maybe (since I'm really old fashioned, and see quite a few things as either true or false) that's why some people really don't like me...??

[kingrob76]

I’ve used a gig bag of some sort for almost 40 years. I understand it is a tool for carrying, protection against the elements and minor protection against only the most casual of “impacts”. It’s not a hard case and I don’t treat it as such. My last couple bags have maximized the amount of functional cushioning and padding available and that has been just fine for me. I’ve never felt the need to protect the piston stems with covers and so far haven’t had any issue.

Were a hard case as manageable I’d probably use one more often but even a wheeled case is logistically difficult in most situations for me. I’d probably throw a bunch of silica packs in one if I were using it regularly to help with lingering moisture issues.

There’s no one static best way to move your horn, but there is a best way for each person. Do that and be happy.

THAT BEING SAID…. Euphoniums have little guards on their 4th valves to keep it depressed. Something like that for tuba pistons would seem ideal. And with 3D printing, I would suspect these could be made to clip on to a valve casing and removable / non-permanent.

[JorgePrada]

Hello guys , I have a Reynolds contemporary Sousaphone and I would like to know if you can help me with what different brand Neck can I use for me Sousaphone please , I tried to get the original reference but is impossible is too old
Thanks

[Mary Ann]

I think the concept of something that holds the valves down all the way securely, is the best. If they aren't sticking up they can't be caught and bent.

[tofu]

I can certainly see the benefit to having the springs compressed during transit. I wonder if there is any long term negative effect on spring rebound/life if left in a compressed state for an extended amount of time.