Teenager part-time job with technician

[2nd tenor]

Better he learn something rather than flipping burgers.

Thoughts?

I’m a bit puzzled by that attitude. Flipping burgers might seem - and even be - a dead end occupation but it provides income, experience of work, experience of working with others, and a chance to observe a business in action. There’s even some skill involved, eg. undercook or over cook and the customers will soon have something to say.

Some years back the UK was in recession, three or so years earlier a group of lads left school for the last time with one going to work at McDonalds and the others off to University. The lad going off to McDonalds was laughed at for throwing his future away but he who laughs last laughs best. Come graduation time jobs had become thin on the ground and the graduates went for interviews to flip burgers at McDonalds, guess who interviewed them and (unlike the graduates) was earning good money, was debt free and had money in the bank …

[bloke]

I'm pretty sure that all burgers are going to be flipped with machines pretty soon. I don't imagine that someone is going to come up with some machine that can tighten joints on handmade rotary linkage or straighten out smashed tuba bells anytime soon.

The thing is that people pay upwards of a quarter of a million dollars to become sociologists, but - for some reason - people don't think it's worth paying money to learn how to do things that people need done.

[gocsick]

This thread has gone in s direction I never anticipated, and that's probably a good thing. Somehow through all the chatter I did actually get the information I needed. Thanks everyone.

[bloke]

IF YOU PLAYED A GIG ON A THIRTY YEAR OLD HORN, THANK A HORN-FIXER.

...etc.

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@gocsick

No one here is putting you down. Your wish for your son to have more experiences, insights, and skills is completely understandable and commendable. It's just that the apprentice model doesn't work very well in a repair shop with most every operation both having the potential to get hurt and for someone's property to get ruined.

A training method that actually works fairly well is to purchase some repair tools that look like they can do several things, seek out some ruined instruments, and try to figure out (trial and error) how to un-ruin parts of those instruments with the tools that have been acquired.

[2nd tenor]

This thread has gone in s direction I never anticipated, and that's probably a good thing. Somehow through all the chatter I did actually get the information I needed. Thanks everyone.

Thanks for coming back to us. Your choice is right for you but if you feel able to share the outcome(s) then it might help someone else later.

The thing is that people pay upwards of a quarter of a million dollars to become sociologists, but - for some reason - people don't think it's worth paying money to learn how to do things that people need done.

Yep, my own rule of thumb is that if someone if offering you an apprenticeship to train to do something then that’s a trade or profession worth looking further at. Of course there are exceptions to every rule but it’s a better start point than most others.

Schools seem to have a habit of pointing their leavers towards degrees and to do so with little thought for employability; right now I’m struggling to find folk in the building trade and just maybe that’s ’cause a lot of youngsters go off to Uni instead to spend three or so years studying some subject that doesn’t lead to a job in it.

[BRS]

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[bloke]

If someone really wants to feel superior and have those feelings encouraged by their colleagues, I believe they should look into attempting to secure a tenured career in academia... in particular, probably sociology, history, or one of the other propaganda-based disciplines. The agreement to agree (ie. "groupthink") encourages and bolsters such feelings...the royal-yet-plural "We". Studying history never seems to teach the masses what the ruling class' motives are (very little that is good), and it seems that it is sociologists who tend to be those who attempt to stir up social strife, which is why those in these corners of academia appear to me to be mostly tools. In contrast, those who erect and maintain buildings, those who construct and maintain transportation modes, those who produce food for us to eat, and those who keep us comfortable in our homes, seem to do just about the most good of anyone.

To clarify, those who can't - yet believe they know all about (via "research") - view those who actually can as beneath them.

Within academia, those who direct musical ensembles are actually creating a product. It's not something in 3d, but it's an actual real thing -- a real thing that uplifts, and that's probably why they are looked down upon by others within academia, if this is actually the case.

[BRS]

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[gocsick]

@gocsick

No one here is putting you down.

No worries, I came sincerely asking for advice and received an honest response from the group.

Academia (pick your level) is a funny place. Ok place to visit (interesting, occasionally educational), but not a place to live.

Now I am feeling attacked! Luckily I am an engineering professor and not in one of those "propaganda based disciplines." I still get to make actual stuff and I've trained a lot of people people who are making real contributions in automotive, power gen, aerospace, and a whole body of manufacturing companies. So I feel on the whole my contribution to society has been pretty positive. I've also screwed up enough times and had to have my butt saved by a technician or electrician to know better than to look down on anyone. The amount of political BS required to make it through the tenure process was still overwhelming though. Luckily I still have my hair, even though it is all gray now.

[BRS]

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[bloke]

Engineering is one of the things that should actually be taught at a university. I believe if universities actually wanted to be "universal", they would also teach the trades. They claim to teach economics, but the type of economics they teach are typically fairy tale/Keynesian.

The fact that your own area of expertise is engineering is - I'm sure - why you would like for your son to have some experience doing something real.

[BRS]

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[2nd tenor]

Here’s a weird one:

My wife’s brother has a degree in economics from a somewhat unlikely school. Never used it. Big surprise.

He sent his youngest daughter to the same school. She wanted to be a band director. Covid shut down, online courses (including ensembles), but lived on campus in a vacation type area, don’t ask me how that worked.)

She just finished an associate’s degree in welding instead. Welding. Her goals are unknown, but at least she has a skill!

I’m not sure how a degree gives you a skill. A degree is an academic qualification and typically has no practical element(s) to it (so no skill content). On the other hand a knowledge of welding technology and material properties might lead towards an office based job in engineering.

Whether she’ll be happy in engineering is another matter; she might have her heart set on working with children and music and if so then good luck to her, we do need people who can teach others to enjoy making music.

The value of an economics degree? One of my friends has one and it’s definitely been a big plus to their career and earnings.

[BRS]

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[The Big Ben]

Just a thought:

It can be useful to have a skill and utilize it to pay for one's college. If necessary, develop that skill before college.

I had a couple of students who were very, very bright. When they graduated from high school, they shocked all of the others at the school by saying they were going to hair dressing school. They got a *lot* of heat from the other teachers but I sat down one of them and asked what was her plan was. She told me that the first thing she wanted to do was support herself and then develop her academic skills. I asked her about the money. She had done the research and found that it was possible to make $1500 in a weekend washing/cutting/coloring hair if the worker was good. Schooling wasn't too expensive and fellow workers could be kind of flaky so, if she showed up on time and ready to go and did good work all the time, her clientele and value to a shop would build quickly. She worked her plan and, after five years hairdressing, she started college and finished on time with very little debt (just stuff like a car loan which she could get because she had a work history) and got a job in her field. She didn't take "just any" job in her field because she could do hair a couple of days a week and make ends meet. Turns out she really likes hairdressing and likes making extra money doing it and is actually thinking of starting and managing a shop with three or four rental chairs and wrangling the place and making big loot. Her mother is a good friend of mine and I love hearing what her daughter has up her sleeve.

That's just one. The neighbor kid growing up went to dental tech school to get money and eventually go to dental school and having a dental practice, which he has had for the last twenty years. Another guy I went to HS with learned to be a fry cook and paid for most of his college doing it as well as helping support himself in the early years of a civil engineering career. He ended up being a "big deal" in the highway department in Washington State.

Gotta have a plan.

[2nd tenor]

Huh, well that’s a thinker.

An associate (2year) degree in the US is often (not always, but in this case) a hands on trade school type of education. In this case, they learned to weld, not think about welding. It’s not any sort of engineering degree.

English to “English” translation disengaged.

That’s the issue with sharing a language across the Atlantic, occasionally the same words have very different meanings and that can lead to misunderstandings.

I’ve heard of USA students working their way through ‘college’ and applaud such a way of doing things but know how very hard it can be to do so. Here in the UK some degrees can be done on a part time basis (earn while you learn) but it’s tough and typically the successful students are older than their full time student peers.

Interesting about the flack that students receive from school teachers, we have that in the UK too and mostly it is unhelpful. Indeed the whole idea of going to University really needs a long hard look at, some academic stuff doesn’t actually move you forward it just fills your time and loads you with debt.

[bloke]

I've totally given up on fixing horns, because climate change is going to burn them all up and blow them all away anyway...and - even if not - most horns are made by evil corporations.

bloke "further demonstrating the difference between an American university and a trade school"

[Three Valves]

Of course not all teachers share those memes but I see no such memes related to any other occupation.

Nurses are catching up.

[bloke]

Of course not all teachers share those memes but I see no such memes related to any other occupation.

Nurses are catching up.

Maybe those from those two occupations might ought to try out working on an oil rig or being lumberjacks for a year or so... or welding together skyscraper superstructures, maybe.. or - if those are a little too much - maybe spending 50 or 60 hours a week - or maybe 80 - in a metal building trying to get a whole bunch of funky lawn mowers, chainsaws, and weed eaters running properly again. I'm sure those customers - who own those items, need them working right away - are much nicer to deal with than 12-year-olds... and Chinese replacement parts are just great, when they finally arrive 6 or 8 months later.

[Three Valves]

Th oil rig guys woul make fun of my fat ass and blue hair!