Wessex Helicon

[Tim Jackson]

https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/bbb-helicon-hb24


Just wondering who has one of these and how they play. I would go for the 3-valve lacquer. Hard to get excited about these without some idea how they play - say vs a good sousaphone.

Thanks for the reviews and thoughts.

Tim

[edfirth]

Tim, I think Bill (Doc) has one and has posted himself playing it. Sounds great! The video is on here somewhere but you could probably shoot him a PM and ask him what he thinks. Best, Ed

[Three Valves]

AFAIK they only make 4v in either the BBb or the Eb.

They are easier to hold, play well and have a unique visual appeal.

I went with a 36k.

[bloke]

Bill Holt @Doc has one, and I think he likes his a lot.
It appears to be a thing that they made using the parts from their copy of a conn 28k sousaphone.

This next statement relies on a whole bunch of if thens, but if their copy of a 28k is accurate, and if they trimmed a couple of circuits the same way that I trimmed them on the last 28k I worked on, and if the straight bell doesn't change the tuning, that should be a good instrument.

[Tim Jackson]

Who is the rep for these horns? The website is slow in responding.

Tim

[LeMark]

The easiest thing to do is contact someone like Carl, AKA @UncleBeer on the forum

[bloke]

I apologize for posting information that was previously posted in the same thread...and yes, Denton Texas.

[Kirley]

I'm pretty sure Doc has the Eb version.

I have the BBb. Until last year, it was my main horn since getting it in 2018. A very kind gentleman gifted me a Martin helicon from the 20s last year. As most of you'd probably guess, the Martin is a superior instrument in just about every way so the Wessex has taken a back seat.

The good:
-Balance- Helicons sit really nice. Especially the variety, such as these, that don't have the sticky-outy bells. The low center of gravity is a nice change of pace from sousaphones. You can let go and the horn just likes being there. Also, sitting is much more comfy with this thing than with sousies.
-Compactness- When you're tall, having a lower bell really helps. Low ceilings are always a challenge with sousaphones. I'd say that it helps with doorways, too. But what you gain in overhead clearance, you lose a bit in width. So that's a bit of a mixed bag.
-Valve section- The valves have been great. Super smooth and an excellent seal. The layout of the tuning slides and their alignment have all been great.
-Removable bell- It's super handy. Fits in a gig bag. Fits in the trunk.

The bad:
-Bracing- The metal they use is soft. No two ways about it. I had my repair guy replace all of the neck bracing with King hardware. Solid as a rock.
-4th valve- I find the circuit to be just a tad bit long. More in the old tradition of the "register key" than the newer use of the in-tune 1 and 3. Also, they put a water key on the tiny little tuning slide way at the end of the circuit. Almost no chance of water getting all the way over there unless you happened to be in a hula hooping contest. I had my repair guy remove the key from that location and put it right at the beginning of the 4th valve circuit just as it exits the block. You know, where the water collects.
-Intonation- It's not awesome. It's better with a Helleberg than anything else that I've tried. But it's still quirky. D below the staff prefers 3rd valve over 12. Other things just don't quite line up over the overtone series. Luckily the 1st valve slide is easily accessible. I find the whole horn a bit sharp for me. But I tend to be on the sharp side of most horns. Luckily it has a very long tuning slide but I still get to the bottom of it on hot days.
-Directionality- This isn't unique to the Wessex but to helicons in general. Your sound doesn't go where you're looking. It's not a deal breaker but it takes some getting used to. Obviously, if you're using amplification, no big deal. But acoustic gigs you need to be conscious about where you stand/sit and which way you face.

I've never actually seen the 3 valve version in real life. I know they have a photo of it on their site. If it's available, I'd say go for it. Especially if it would knock the price back down. The listed price right now is at least a $1000 more than I paid. But lots of things have changed since 2018.

[bloke]

The Chinese B-flat there looks to have a shorter (helicon) bell compared to (as they look to mostly reference) old Conn helicons.

The Conn helicon (which I have played) which was very similar to the 14K Conn sousaphone (I'm pretty sure that I remember) featured a longer bell (than the Chinese one pictured). The Conn was (very) front-heavy, so the Chinese version (likely) is an improvement, in that regard.

WANDERING OFF-TOPIC EVEN MORE...

(not interested in a four-valve contrabass shoulder instrument, and perfectly happy with THREE valves...having owned a 4-valve one for quite a few years)...

I believe (for me...) the ideal B-flat contrabass helicon (were I interested in owning a helicon again, which I'm not) would be an OLD THICK HEAVY King body (intonation/counterweight) mated up with a (new/thinner/avoiding front-heaviness) King 2341 bell.

[BopEuph]

...

(not interested in a four-valve contrabass shoulder instrument, and perfectly happy with THREE valves...having owned a 4-valve one for quite a few years)....

I don't miss the extra few notes when I'm playing the kind of gigs I would with those instruments (jazz/funk/commercial). It's just like I don't miss the B string when I play my amazing 4-string P-bass. And unlike a bass, false tones exist on tuba. And intonation isn't too bad on the few times I need those squirrelly valve combinations.

[bloke]

...

(not interested in a four-valve contrabass shoulder instrument, and perfectly happy with THREE valves...having owned a 4-valve one for quite a few years)....

I don't miss the extra few notes when I'm playing the kind of gigs I would with those instruments (jazz/funk/commercial). It's just like I don't miss the B string when I play my amazing 4-string P-bass. And unlike a bass, false tones exist on tuba. And intonation isn't too bad on the few times I need those squirrelly valve combinations.

re: false tones...particularly excellent with BB-flat sousaphones/helicons
Even with "low" E-flat (when I had a 4-valve sousaphone) I had to reach up and pull out the upper #1 slide (which I engineered into the instrument - which lacked one from the factory) in order to play that pitch flat enough.

again: (shut up, bloke...even though it's true) a 4-valve non-compensating system really doesn't enhance a BB-flat sousaphone(/helicon) very much at all - particularly when a 3-valve system features a tune-on-the-fly #1 (ok, or main) slide.

The webpage shows four valves on the instrument and three on the valveset close-up...
I wonder (??) if the close-up is of the sousaphone version.

The BB-flat helicon has an upper #1 slide, so 1-3 and 1-2-3 are tunable...
me...?? (I probably would have brought the BB-flat helicon to the market with 3 valves, stuck a video on the page of Carl blowing through the (surely great) false tones, a lower price, and some sort of bag-in-a-bag (since schools likely don't buy them), but what do I know?).

[bloke]

...but I do understand that people "like" 4 non-compensating valves, so...
...and helicons are cool, because (duh) they sound like tubas, but can be playing standing up.

[Finetales]

One need only spend a day at Disneyland listening to the sousaphone players in the Disneyland Band pumping out rock-solid low Ebs, Ds, and Dbs that anchor the (very loud) band just as much as any other note to realize that a 4th valve on a sousaphone is entirely superfluous.

[Mary Ann]

Doc must be on holiday or something (hopefully not something worse than that) because he hasn't chipped in.

[Doc]

Duplicate post.

[Doc]

I like my Eb helicon. The only problem I have experienced is that one of the bell screw mounts fell off the tenon at TubaChristmas (easy fix). Otherwise, it has been a fun instrument. Really good response, respectable intonation, easy to play. It’s a keeper!

I’ve played the CC 2-3 times, and it is a very nice instrument. Very responsive. Nice sound. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I played the BBb last month, and could not find a leadpipe angle that worked. Regardless, I didn’t think it was as good a player as the other two. Not bad, but #3 in the line up.

Here are some samples of the Eb (skip all the talking):

[Mary Ann]

Aha. You bought that used after Matt had massaged it.
Thanks for the videos.

And nobody got my joke about Doc (being on) holiday.

[BopEuph]

Man, Bill, I'll never get tired of your sound.

I've always wondered, though: American tubists seem to insist that helicon is played commonly in blasmusik bands, but I usually see baritone more often than any form of tuba, especially in oberkrainer music. I assume the helicon was more often seen in Czech bands?

[Doc]

Aha. You bought that used after Matt had massaged it.
Thanks for the videos.

And nobody got my joke about Doc (being on) holiday.

I’m your huckleberry.

[Mary Ann]

My other comment, because I laughed when you said it is light weight -- and it looks like 100% of that weight is on your shoulder, would be -- if you put about 20% of your body weight on your shoulder like that (as I would be doing) would you still call it light weight?