Adult “Beginner” Mouthpiece?

[pompatus]

What might be considered a good starting mouthpiece for an experienced bass trombonist new to tuba? My primary bass trombone mouthpieces have been in the area around a Bach 1 1/4G size-wise, but I don’t know how well that might really translate over to tuba.

At the moment I have access to a G&W Diablo and a Schilke Helleberg. What might your suggestions be? Anything to try?

Thanks, for any help.

[Kevbach33]

I play on a 1¼ sized mouthpiece (Pickett 1.5S) on bass trombone myself.

However, I don't use it to base my tuba mouthpiece preference on. Tuba is such a different embouchure for me that I have to assess it on its own terms. Instead, answer this query: "how big can I go before the rim hits my nose or no longer provides good seal?"

I'd try that Schilke Helleberg first; not a huge mouthpiece for an introduction to tuba. Stick with it for a while, and then assess again.

What kind of tuba do you have access to?

[Bessonguy]

I say get a plastic Helleberg from Kelly.
Or one of their other standard size plastic mouthpieces.

It's what I did going from euphonium to tuba as an adult. Then I bought a stainless Kellyberg when they were on sale.

[gocsick]

Start with the default tuba mouthpieces.. A Heleberg and a Bach 18. If you have any tuba friends they are likely to have a Bach or copy of the 18 somewhere. I still have mine from high school and actually still use it for my big recording bell Conn..

You can also see iif anywhere has a Bach 25... It is a slightly smaller mouthpiece, often used for younger kids, but I know a Euphonium double who loves it.

[bloke]

In 1970 (when I switched from a school-owned trumpet to a school-owned sousaphone - so I wouldn't have to as my Dad to buy me a trumpet - my beginner mouthpiece was one with a nylon shank threaded to a brass shank. The nylon threads were worn, it was very leaky, and there was all sorts of tape on it - still leaky. I would suggest something other than that as a beginner mouthpiece. I'm suspicious that it may have impeded my progress.

[pompatus]

…answer this query: "how big can I go before the rim hits my nose or no longer provides good seal?"

I'd try that Schilke Helleberg first; not a huge mouthpiece for an introduction to tuba. Stick with it for a while, and then assess again.

Thanks, for the information and recommendation, Kevbach33. It seems there are multiple recommendations to go with a Helleberg variant.

What kind of tuba do you have access to?

At the moment I have a 3/4 CC I’m using to assess whether I can still make my embouchure work, given some trauma I suffered a couple of years ago. However, I may be in the market for a good 4/4 BBb, if anyone has a recommendation for around $2k shipped to central Texas. Cosmetics are relatively unimportant, as long as the valves have good compression and are mechanically sound.

I say get a plastic Helleberg from Kelly.
Or one of their other standard size plastic mouthpieces.

It's what I did going from euphonium to tuba as an adult. Then I bought a stainless Kellyberg when they were on sale.

This is probably a very good suggestion. Thanks, for another vote toward the Helleberg!

Start with the default tuba mouthpieces.. A Heleberg and a Bach 18…

…You can also see iif anywhere has a Bach 25... It is a slightly smaller mouthpiece, often used for younger kids, but I know a Euphonium double who loves it.

I often see the Bach 24AW for sale from various sources. What is your opinion on that size? How similar might it be to the Bach 25?

[pompatus]

In 1970 (when I switched from a school-owned trumpet to a school-owned sousaphone - so I wouldn't have to as my Dad to buy me a trumpet - my beginner mouthpiece was one with a nylon shank threaded to a brass shank. The nylon threads were worn, it was very leaky, and there was all sorts of tape on it - still leaky. I would suggest something other than that as a beginner mouthpiece. I'm suspicious that it may have impeded my progress.

I’m intrigued, and now have multiple questions; primarily, about the nylon/brass shank arrangement. In any case, thanks for responding!

[2nd tenor]

Unless you are a person with a big face I’d leave the Bach 24 AW alone (otherwise the wide rim won’t comfortably fit on your face). I’m not sure that a Bach 25 will work well enough with a BBb - though they’re fine enough on an Eb - but I suggest giving a cheap second hand one a go as you work towards building the chops for a Bach 18.

See page 28 of the Bach manual : https://mouthpieceexpress.com/media/bach/bachmouth.pdf

[bloke]

I joke around too much, but these were a real thing (which preceded Lexan acrylic mouthpieces).

The tuba one was crap, and was about the size of a Bach #7 (which is a "regular large" - vs. huge - mouthpiece).
I played a paid orchestra concert with one (a new one) once, about thirty years ago...it began leaking about a week later.

long discontinued, is my belief.

Here' the trumpet version:

(I believe the cup on the tuba one was just too big, and the nylon was just too soft for something that large for the threading to hold up.)

[pompatus]

Unless you are a person with a big face I’d leave the Bach 24 AW alone (otherwise the wide rim won’t comfortably fit on your face). I’m not sure that a Bach 25 will work well enough with a BBb - though they’re fine enough on an Eb - but I suggest giving a cheap second hand one a go as you work towards building the chops for a Bach 18.

See page 28 of the Bach manual : https://mouthpieceexpress.com/media/bach/bachmouth.pdf

Thanks, for the clarification. Some of those old Bach mouthpiece descriptions can be really interesting, too!

[pompatus]

I joke around too much, but these were a real thing (which preceded Lexan acrylic mouthpieces).

The tuba one was crap, and was about the size of a Bach #7 (which is a "regular large" - vs. huge - mouthpiece).
I played a paid orchestra concert with one (a new one) once, about thirty years ago...it began leaking about a week later.

long discontinued, is my belief.

Here' the trumpet version:

(I believe the cup on the tuba one was just too big, and the nylon was just too soft for something that large for the threading to hold up.)

Totally not what my imagination was showing me!

I played a cornet version of that same piece when I was in high school, as well, back in the mid-1990s. Made by DEG, iirc?

[gocsick]

I often see the Bach 24AW for sale from various sources. What is your opinion on that size? How similar might it be to the Bach 25?

Take anything I say with a grain of salt, especially with so many knowledgeable people on this site,....

Avoid 24aw at all costs. I have no idea why this mouthpiece is recommended for beginners and children. I believe @tclements had a blog posts about how he confiscates them from students if they show up to a lesson with one.

[joshwirt]

A few 'tuba-doubling' bass trombonists that I know swear by the Denis Wick 2 or 3XL. Narrow cup that's not much bigger than a large bass bone mp. A wider cushioned rim to give more surface area to help control the OH embouchure (vs an OO like on trombone) and also to help with endurance.

They sounded great with those mp's on their BBb's.

I think about the only place in the US that reliably stocks DW mp's these days is DF Music here in Chicago:

https://www.dfmusicinc.com/Denis-Wick-M ... -s/229.htm

[pompatus]

Take anything I say with a grain of salt, especially with so many knowledgeable people on this site,....

Avoid 24aw at all costs. I have no idea why this mouthpiece is recommended for beginners and children. I believe @tclements had a blog posts about how he confiscates them from students if they show up to a lesson with one.

Thanks, for the warning! Given some dental trauma I’ve endured recently, my thought was that the wider rim, as advertised, would help spread the pressure a bit better, hence my inquiry. I’ll do a bit more research, and look for tclements’ blog post for the reasoning.

[bloke]

There are mouthpieces that are regularly recommended here, which cause me to raise my eyebrows - because I just can't do much with quite a few of them...

...and it's not because they cost me sales of my mouthpieces (as my sales of my stuff is a microscopic percentage of all tuba mouthpiece sales).

Mostly, when I hear really fine players (rarely but occasionally) play X, Y, or Z (and even 24AW, which I make me - as well - grimace), I greatly admire (not those mouthpieces, but) those PLAYERS, for being able to make such nice sounds with such "ugh" mouthpieces...

...so I avoid the "many people start out with a ------------ or a ------------" type of recommendations.

I would do ONE thing - on the front end:

Go CHEAP.


...and - if someone offers you a FREE 24AW, GO AHEAD AND START ON THAT...

...because - after a while, if you get something better (and that immediately SOUNDS better with you playing it) - you'll LEARN SOMETHING by noticing the differences in their interior dimensions (just like - with the nylon-cup mouthpiece, when I was 12 years old - I learned that a leak between the cup and shank doesn't work out so well).

Someone (a couple of posts back) sort of tried to politely warn you, but ...A WHOLE BUNCH of us are completely full of shit, and are either hacks (or wannabe hacks)...just as with every other pursuit. Trust your OWN observations, rather than others' online (or even in-person) pontificating.

[GC]

The 24AW is probably the most polarizing mouthpiece there is. Some people absolutely despise them, and they can be quite virulent about it. Some are fine with it; a lot of Brits play them with Eb compensating basses. I don't know anyone who absolutely loves them.

FWIW, if I'm getting jaded with whatever mouthpieces I'm using, I'll pull out a 24AW for a while, will be ok for a day or so, and then will go back to my other mouthpieces and will appreciate them even more.

[Heavy_Metal]

@pompatus , the Diablo and Schilke Helleberg should be two good starting points.

Not sure what part of "Central Texas" you're in, but Brook Mays stocks some of the other recommended ones. They may have a store near you- go here:

https://www.brookmays.com/catalogsearch ... mouthpiece

[pompatus]

The 24AW is probably the most polarizing mouthpiece there is…

…FWIW, if I'm getting jaded with whatever mouthpieces I'm using, I'll pull out a 24AW for a while, will be ok for a day or so, and then will go back to my other mouthpieces and will appreciate them even more.

That’s probably really good information, and a smart way to make the best of the 24AW, given my understanding. I imagine that’s a good alternative to gear acquisition syndrome.

[donn]

For me, Schilke-Helleberg and Denis Wick 2L are too similar for one to be a big improvement from the other. (That's how I remember it anyway - looking at my mouthpieces, it appears that I may have succeeded in giving my 2L away; no such luck with the S-H though.) The Kellyberg is a good idea, slightly larger size. Get the glow-in-the-dark one if possible. If looking for something slightly smaller, the Faxx copy of the Conn 7b is a good deal.

[pompatus]

@Heavy_Metal I’m about an hour north of Austin, so Brook Mays in the Houston or DFW areas are somewhat equidistant from me at around 2.5 hours each way.

@donn Thanks, for the mention on the Faxx mouthpieces. On the trombone side of things they get mentioned frequently as an inexpensive way to try popular sizes. The Kellyberg has come up multiple times, as well, and I may lean that way if the Schilke Helleberg feels better, assuming the plastic construction holds up well, sonically/musically.