amazing friend

[bloke]

A wonderful friend came across a (and I've never even held one, before) Conn 32K sousaphone, and GIFTED me with it.

I believe this to be a 10K. I thought it was something else, but I believe I've been educated.
- same size as 14K, YET
- with heavy-duty (20K style) bracing
- standard style (long stroke) pistons
- definitely heavier than 14K, @ 25 lbs.

it's a low 889K serial # which puts it at 1960.

There's an "X" after the serial number, which I suspect (??) is due to the fact that the bell diameter is 26 inches (rather than the standard 24 inches).

The lacquer is poor, yet the here-and-there lacquer has a shine to it, and is original.
The bell is brown and the engraving is not very deep, so I suspect it was re-lacquered, at some point (though - thankfully - no thin).

It was missing the entire #1 valve assembly (as well as top cap, but I had a rebuilt one, as I had Dave Secrist do a bunch of them - years ago - when he would rebuild pistons (not "to fit in the casings", but) to exact dimensions - with no requirement that the valve section be sent...TRUE craftsmanship...oh yeah. I'm remembering $45/piston.

The casings are not a bit worn, so installing this #1 piston assembly defines "excellence"...and the other two are excellent (no plating wear whatsoever) as well.

quite a few dents, but I believe I can magnet everything.
It arrived with a neck and a Conn tuning bit.

The (flat on all of these) second-space C is (yes noticeably flat, but) only about 14 cents flat (and I can push it up to about 5 cents with no work).
The B-natural is less than 10 cents flat...whatever...a GREAT sousaphone...to make lots of loud outside noise...

...as my mother (who would have been 108) would say, "That's an OUTSIDE toy !!!"

Sadly, the lowest level of my friend's house flooded, so (yeah...) I'll give this thing a HEARTY chemical cleaning.

Remember a repair guy who was here but (oddly) seems to have disappeared?
We had a discussion about all of the makers (imo) "retreating" to those arch-style lower mouthpipe braces.
(This lower mouthpipe was twisted somewhat with a 1/8th-inch crack, I have a batch of news ones, so I just stuck a new one on, and reinstalled the (elegant/original/cast) braces.

Those braces actually HELD - even though the lower mouthpipe was somewhat twisted.

The OBVIOUS and REAL reasons (bloke opinions) that lower mouthpipe bracing is no longer cast is because
- arch braces are cheaper
- it doesn't require any craftsmanship to fit arch-style lower mouthpipe braces to sousaphones, thus...
- they are really fast to install

I reinstalled the original cast braces...' no way was I going to stick one of those "arch" things on this cool sousaphone.

As of less than a month ago, I was sousaphone-less, and (reluctantly) sold my (30 lbs.) silver King (late 40's body w/1960 bell) to a university, but - HEY !!!...I have a sousaphone, once again !!!

I owe my buddy, and I'll be fixing him up with something as a thank-you.
I suspect this was a local school discard.

yeah...I "tweaked" (remembering my favorite word) the oem cast braces, and put their feet precisely back in their original spots, EVEN THOUGH, I changed the angle of the lower mouthpipe a bit (to my personal liking)...so yeah, when I received this instrument, the first valve casing was an "empty hole"...The bent lower mouthpipe was putting pressure on the #1 casing, but - as soon as I removed it - the Secrist-rebuilt valve moved up-and-down freely in the #1 casing. oh...Jupiter valve springs...same size and T.P.I. as Conn, but lighter...nicer-feeling...



anticipating questions:
- No. It is NOT a 38K, as the 38K body was the same size as the 20K, and this body is the same size as the 14K.
- Yes, the original (damaged/repairable) lower mouthpipe tube has a trim rib soldered to it (as did early 20K's)...I'll likely transfer it over to this one.

Over the years, Conn MOVED their sousaphone valve guide positions/orientations so - (again: years ago) when I had Dave Secrist rebuild a whole bunch of old Conn pistons to 1.045" perfect cylinders, I pre-drilled and tapped holes on all of them in BOTH the old AND new valve guide locations - so these pistons would be ready to install in both really old and later-made instruments.

[arpthark]

I discovered a much older one as a barn find in Virginia during a road trip back in March. "32K" stamped on the bell collar, Great Depression-era horn. I really liked it and would've hung onto it if I didn't already have my Daisyphone. It seems like yours suffered less in public schools than mine did in a barn (and a pretty hard life before the barn to boot, based on the piston wear), and you've got the goods and skills to get this one nicely slicked out.

[bloke]

see...??

This ain't no 14K/Pan American.
This thing is "built".

[MiBrassFS]

Terrific! We all need a lot more friends like that!

Keep an eye out for a “10k.” The “professional” version of the 14k. I’ve seen exactly one…

[gocsick]

Awesome amazing find! Have fun making some noise.

[bloke]

re-description&guessing-I-believe-its-this&the-X-may-refer-to-the-26-inch-bell.png (32.85 KiB) Viewed 658 times

...and even though the serial number indicates a couple of years prior to this production timeline.

[MiBrassFS]

10K “Artist model” #10/0.719” Bore, 26” bell, BBb Sousaphone -1962-1971

Anything on the bell collar?

I had a catalog page with it, but it’s gone with the wind.

Even sweeter if this is 10K!

[bloke]

Conn Loyalist lists the bore of the 22K as 10 and the 20K as 10-1/2, but we all know that both are .734" (albeit short-action.
This one is .734" as well. ...so whatever re: the 10 vs. 10-1/2 bore sizes listed on that site.

I'm strongly leaning towards 10K, and even though the serial number indicates 1960 (ie. prior to 1962).


I'm also GUESSING that the "X" after the serial number (stamped on the valveset and on the oem pistons), may well indicate the "X"-tra large (26 inch) bell...but (again) that's a GUESS.

It's VERY restorable, and without even 10¢ worth of valve work.

Sitting in a 26" fiber bass drum case, I ALSO have a Buescher 26" bell (same 6-inch Conn collar size: big fancy "BUESCHER" engraving, and I'm the first to - carefully/gently - shine it up, after removing all the minor dent imperfections) that would mate up with this body...What I'm saying is that the Buescher bell has never been aggressively buffed. Being somewhat a fan of Buescher, I would probably be just about as happy with that bell...but whatever. Finally - up in the attic - I'm thinking there's a 24-inch 26K (E-flat sousaphone) bell, which is the same as a 14K bell. LOL...I might even have a 36K fiberglass bell stored up there somewhere - were I to look further.

I edited this thread, because I changed my mind (thanks to some education, above) regarding what I believe I have...even though old pictures of another model (which I've seen) look like this model.
My belief was that my instrument is a 32K, based on THIS picture of a 32K and THIS description of a 32K (which fit the description of my instrument "to a T" - other than my 26-inch bell, which I believe may be explained by the "X" at the end of the serial number.

Conn Loyalist 32K picture:

The 32K Lightweight Sousaphone is the newest thing in sousaphones and was designed for a light-weight sousaphone possessing the same general design and quality of performance as the 38K Sousaphone Grand. That this model fulfills this demand is fully evident because it has jumped into immediate popularity. Magnificent tone easily produced, combined with lighter weight than found in the average BBb sousaphone, makes this instrument ideal for professionals with long and tiring engagements... Although of the same bore through the valves and major portion of the tubing as the famous Conn Sousaphone Grand 38K, our engineers have ingeniously designed the instrument in respect to rings, bracings, ferrules and valve caps so as to reduce the weight by more than two pounds, making it weigh about 26 pounds. The bell is 24 inches in diameter.

My weighting may be off (as I have to balance the sousaphone on the scale), but I believe I was getting 25 lbs...EVEN THOUGH my bell diameter is 26 inches (and not 24 inches). Mine does not have ribs along the backs of the 1st and 2nd branches, but (well...) it just seems to me that the extra two inches of bell diameter would easily make up (in weight) for the lack of those.


...goofing around with it just a bit more, I'm getting solid second-space C's with valves 1-3, and by that I mean that the attacks are not tenuous (ie. I'm not "cracking" any of the attacks).

bloke "OK...maybe 10K...BUT IT STILL LOOKS JUST LIKE A 32K, OTHER THAN THE EXTRA-LARGE 'X' BELL."

[MiBrassFS]

Another guess… From: http://www.saxpics.com/conn/docs/numbers.htm

"X" after a serial number: no one is 100% certian what this refers to, but it appears to mean "eXperimental".

The Conn Research Lab would build stuff and set it loose out into the wild. Sometimes they became new models, sometimes they were “one-offs.” I’m no “sousaphone-ologist.” I did let a 10k slip through my hands. Not like I need a sousaphone let alone sousaphoneS, but it was cool!

[bloke]

Thanks for the info. That makes sense. It really does look like a reissue of a (sturdy braces, vs. 14K-style light braces) 32K, other than the 26-in bell flare (vs. typical 24-inch 32K/Pan American/14K bell flare).

There's been some semi-serious talk about me fixing up (the whole nine yards) the excellent-original-valves never-overhauled Elkhart 20K sousaphones that we have (ie. doing it this year) and selling them to one school that's been disappointed with their recently-purchased new ones. I might ask them if they would like to have this one also, as it (matching the 20K in this regard) has a 26-in bell and - according to the quoted advertising - it's a couple of pounds lighter than those (Elkhart) 20K's.

What's funny about the brand new 20K's is that the sheet metal is really thin and the slide tubing is really thin, but they've added a whole bunch of extra (useless?) braces, and they feel like they weigh about as much as the old ones... valves on the new ones.. yikes.

[catgrowlB]

Very good

Years ago, I was gifted an old beat up Conn 14k. Serial# puts it at 1955 manufacture. It even came with the old original red velvet lined case, which is in rough condition. I got all the major dents ironed out, some soldering, a replacement 3rd valve, new bell screws and replacement neck and bits. It plays like a dream Wish there were more groups where sousaphone would be welcome.

I have to say the big bell elbow to upper branch brace is just as beefy and nice on the 14k as your new sousa, here. Different design with diamond flanges as opposed to the ridged brace with oval flanges on yours and later 20k sousas.
But otherwise, the 14k has the lighter 'stick' bracing; plain, flat -ring ferrules and no shoulder plate.

[bloke]

Very good

Years ago, I was gifted an old beat up Conn 14k. Serial# puts it at 1955 manufacture. It even came with the old original red velvet lined case, which is in rough condition. I got all the major dents ironed out, some soldering, a replacement 3rd valve, new bell screws and replacement neck and bits. It plays like a dream Wish there were more groups where sousaphone would be welcome.

I have to say the big bell elbow to upper branch brace is just as beefy and nice on the 14k as your new sousa, here. Different design with diamond flanges as opposed to the ridged brace with oval flanges on yours and later 20k sousas.
But otherwise, the 14k has the lighter 'stick' bracing; plain, flat -ring ferrules and no shoulder plate.

The 14K (born in 1955) grew out of the "budget" Pan American" model (as the Pan American econo line was being discontinued).
Someone (probably over a decade ago) gave me a silver Pan American (severely distressed, with a heavy coat of white paint, as well as a heavy cost of blue paint over the white), NO valve section. I got all the paint off, smoothed out everything (to restoration level) and installed a (brass) 36K (same valve section - for fiberglass) valve section - which had been rebuilt a long time ago and set aside.

I hit the valve section with bright silver paint (which matches the satin silver body) and sold it as an "emergency very high enrollment" sousaphone to a university, a month or so ago...and I also sold them my old silver King...so (with this thing) I have a sousaphone, once again...for a while...

Basically, mine (shown in this thread) is a 14K, EXCEPT
- heavy 20K-STYLE bracing and shoulder plate
- special-order 26-inch bell

I don't have any problem taking a sousaphone and using it most anywhere.
I play in a few "freeway philharmonics" (per-service orchestras).
The tradition with orchestras is to open a season (not every concert...only the first concert) with the SSB. Unless I'm just too burdened with other stuff, I usually stand up (with the rest of the orchestra) and play it on sousaphone. There are other pieces (symphony orchestra) whereby I've used a sousaphone.

weight-wise, I MUCH prefer the 14K to this heavier version...They sound about the same...OK...The 26" bell may "spread" the sound a bit more. (??)

[bloke]

Today, I parlayed this instrument over to a brown decent condition 20K with good valves. The condition of the trade is that I have to get all the body dents out of this instrument, clean it, and polish and relacquer the bell on this instrument, so I have a lot of work to do on this instrument before the trade goes through. (In other words, this 10K/32K thing would be delivered to them with worn patchy original factory epoxy lacquer on the body - which I would touch up some, and a relacquered bell.)

There's a university that has been trying to build a section of 20Ks, and now that they are costing them way over $12,000 (not to mention the issues that are involved with new ones which I won't go into here), they've become interested in my collection of good-valves Elkhart era ones - which have been awaiting restoration for quite a few years. This trade gives me a total of six, and that might actually fill out their section. This would mean working my butt off getting them all straightened out and polished prior to Christmas , taking them up to Anderson wrapped in plastic (to discourage tarnish), and hoping that Anderson might be able to plate one of them a month and get them all done before this fiscal year (which just started) ends, so that a purchase order could be fulfilled prior to its expiration.

Mine currently range in condition from playable to being combinations of 38K bodies sitting in cases with 22K valve sections waiting to be made into short action 20Ks... the important things being that none of the bodies are compromised and all the valves on all the valve sections are good.