Might anyone be interested in following a (101-year-old) BASS saxophone restoration thread?

[bloke]

warning:
It would probably tend to be one of those long/drawn-out (just like a bass sax, though pretty bass-ic) threads...




For those of you know know a bit, you will immediately notice that the inserted neck is NOT a bass sax neck.
The oem neck is laying on the couch (all dents removed and refinished).
I'm pretty sure (re: complaints of players of these) that the factory neck is - simply - too long.
(This wouldn't be the first time that a factory made a miscalculation.)

You may immediately ask "How could bloke possibly be able to judge this? Shouldn't this be sent off to the Yale University bass saxophone professor, or - at the very least - out for freak jury peer (ie. equally ignorant ignoramuses) review...???"

Well...
Saxophones (and it's not all that uncommon) that are way flat close to the neck and a bit flat way down the instrument (and the mouthpiece is pushed in as far as possible)...That is a telltale sign that the neck is too long. Shortening a neck will (no: not cause a saxophone to play perfectly in tune [ btw], but...) ALLOW for more BALANCED (top-to-bottom) pitch tendencies.

OK...
I'm NOT chopping off (particularly not after restoring it) a perfect condition oem neck, but I AM going to make ANOTHER one that (per early experimentation) could benefit from being 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" shorter.

How are the pads?

They are terrible.

...so how can you, Mr. bloke, be so cocksure in your such-an-early judgement regarding this?

I'm not completely sure...It's like a car that has multiple things wrong with it...but I've seen this very same symptom before with all other lengths of saxophones (and the same problem with flute head joints, oboe reed lengths, etc.)
again: I'm doing NOTHING to the factory neck. It will remain untouched.

One last thing:
That mouthpiece mounted on the (baritone sax) neck on the instrument:
That's the OEM (101 years old) STOCK mouthpiece !!!
(You just don't get those with one of these instruments...and it's undamaged.)

[bloke]

I do not believe that this instrument has ever been refinished (unless you count a thin/cheesy coating of rattle-can gold paint - which will strip off easily).

Notice how (even through the gold paint - which, even thin, is dimensional) sharp the engraving appears:





Also, I'm really happy that it's not silver plated.
I've NEVER been good about keeping silver plated instruments shiny, and (well...) silver oxide stinks of sulfur.
Yes, I'm going to polish and lacquer it - prior to re-padding.

keys: Astonishingly, only two or three (and ones that are not attached to pad cups) only slightly rattle between their support posts.

[MiBrassFS]

Adrian says, “yessir…”

[bloke]

A.R. was amazing, but (lesser known) Min Leibrook was (though A.R. played MANY instruments) a to-be-held-in-awe-early-jazz-god triple threat (tuba/bass/bass saxophone), and - arguably - played the most recognizable (as well as being awesome) bass saxophone line of any Bix recordings (ie. "Rhythm King"). He died young. His sousaphone (pictured) was (ie. I'm visually identifying it as) a Buescher, so I sorta would guess that his bass sax was a Buescher as well.






ie. This was LEIBROOK, and NOT Rollini...

[bloke]

One of our regular school customers called Mrs. bloke to pick up one of these for repair.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ne-lacquer

It was one of the sought after ones (with the red Yamaha emblem) from back when most people suspect everything on the instrument was actually made in Japan.

They had been marching around outside with it and decided to drop it on the ground. After all, it's only a $10,000 bucks thing, and our sales tax rate is only pushing 10%, so they might as well buy and tear up the best, right?

The J bow underneath the neck was folded sideways, the neck was bent down, the bell flare and bell were screwed up, and there was other stuff wrong. When people decide to drop these on the ground, It's usually the tops and the bottoms and the bells that get screwed up real bad.

Mrs. bloke was fretting about it, so I told her that if she would go sit with me in my work room I would fix it for her tonight, so she could adjust it out and take it back Monday. I made her listen to a bunch of lyrics to a bunch of silly old songs like Jingle Bell Rock, Rock Around the Clock, Jolly Holly Christmas, and a bunch of other annoying non sequitur songs. It's all straightened out, and that tricky little double/triple octave key thing is lined right back up where it's supposed to be. Considering that the J bow was twisted, I'm sort of proud of that work.

I also had her soak that J bow - as well as the neck - in the acid, because they were both heavily coated with lime. It was just gross, and so bad that it was hard to get the neck in and out.

Here's the main point (at the very end of this post) after messing around with a BASS for a little bit:

This li'l ol' "bari" (barely?) thing sort of feels like a alto - or maybe even a soprano.

[MiBrassFS]

Two things…

First, the Buescher and Conn basses supposedly-possibly-rumor-has-it-guesses-have-been-made share the same body tubes, which would be a good thing for the bass you have there.

Second, Min Leibrook died earlier at 40, but AR wasn’t all that far behind at 52. The circumstances of AR’s death were kind of crazy. Theories include a mob hit because of gambling debt, almost severed feet… yikes!

[arpthark]

Actuaries love bass saxophonists!

[bloke]

Wikipedia suggests that Rollini died for the same reasons that my mother's brother died. He went into the hospital for a very serious illness, but actually died of medical malpractice.
==================
I'm reading about a vial of mercury that broke in his stomach, which sounds pretty weird.
==================
My uncle went in for stomach ulcers, but he ended up dying because of being treated for the wrong ailment.

_______________________
Yeah, it seems pretty obvious that gangsters broke his feet.

As far as Bix Biederbecke himself, he is said to have died of "everything" (multiple bad habits). That having been said and referring back to the meningitis, that's a communicable disease as well.

Finally, there is another subscriber here who owns the same model of bass saxophone with a serial number so close to mine that it's hard to imagine that they weren't being built side by side at the same time.

[iiipopes]

I have a friend who has a restored bass saxophone who plays it regularly, transposing his own parts from tuba, bassoon, etc. parts. I will forward him this thread.

[MiBrassFS]

Hospitals: a last resort option…

“I have stories.”

[bisontuba]

I know that horn...

[bloke]

aware...thnx

A duplicate male tenon (or a few) is/are going to need to be made out of 30mm diameter brass rod, as the largest part of the shoulder is over 28mm o.d.

The cheapest-with-postage that I've found - so far - is in the UK. c. $60 total for nearly 8 inches of brass rod. That should allow for a goof or two, and two or three more of them.

Chinese knockoffs of Conn 12M BARITONE saxophone necks (which are the "close enough to alter" neck tubes that I believe I'll go with) are around $135 (with me stripping off the lacquer, and tossing everything - other than the neck tube itself - in the parts drawer).

...but bloke, shouldn't you do the restoration of the instrument prior to experimenting with necks?

Again, even with epic leaks I'm (believe it or not) a "strong" enough player to blow past them, and - IF the instrument is to BE restored - I want to know - on the FRONT end - that all off that work will LIKELY result in future pleasurable musical experiences (rather than a bunch of "lipping" struggles).

[bloke]

two updates:

1/ I chemically stripped the gold paint from the engraving pattern on the bell...DEFINITELY, this instrument has NEVER been re-lacquered.
...I also (hurriedly) removed most of the dents (not that I'm getting ready to dig in to this project, but they just - well - bothered me.
(The engraving wasn't even tarnished underneath the paint; I just went over it with a soft polishing cloth.)





2/ This is not some "Sousa/Clarke/whomever Band" (nor military instrument. This instrument DEFINITELY has a storied/dubious history (speakeasy/burlesque/etc...)

Here is a "seafoam" (or faded blue, after a century?) fan-dancer fan, which came out of the main stack (when ironing out dents).




screwing around...??
The dent removal, feather-discovered, and engraving-stripping was all done in about a half an hour (on a Sunday night, no less), and - in the next fifteen minutes (waiting for the lacquer stripper to do its job) - I got lucky and NICELY repaired a (concerned that it might be hopelessly trashed) Bach 36 (Stradivarius trombone) lightweight playing slide. This was for someone who (obviously) bought this instrument to flip it...and our policy is that "Instruments repaired at Mid-South Music, Inc. for RESALE are ONLY those which are the property of Mid-South Music, Inc."...but this is for a former band director who is the spouse of another band director (who has already spend considerable money with us, this summer, so (ok...) an "exception".


bloke "With apologies to the pfft person, I'm having too much fun to respect your wishes."

[arpthark]

You've got one feather; are you going to replace the rest of them and make a new fan?

[bloke]

You've got one feather; are you going to replace the rest of them and make a new fan?

future project...
stay tuned...

https://www.amazon.com/Feathers-Colorfu ... FKWDN?th=1

[MiBrassFS]

Buescher really had nice engraving.

[bloke]

Atypically, the gold paint didn't bubble up as a reaction to the stripper. It was completely loose, but just sat there smooth against the instrument. For a moment I was worried that it was - after all - a satin gold instrument with a bunch of wear, and that would have really complicated this restoration.

(The places where the gold spray paint were applied to the instrument were actually pretty nicely done.)

[bloke]

Mrs. bloke found me a NOT-plastic and good-fitting mouthpiece cap.

It (along with the ligature that was on the instrument's original Buescher bass saxophone mouthpiece) is nickel plated.
Nothing on the instrument itself is nickel plated or made of nickel-brass, so (being the way I am) I'll probably send the cap and ligature off to Anderson to be stripped down to brass, and then I'll polish and lacquer both of them.

[bloke]

[Schlitzz]

About as interesting as an alto clarinet, or viola INTONATION thread……