Temporarily switching from BBb to Eb

[ronr]

As noted above, I’m traveling to Scotland in about a month with a local community band, and they are unable to find a Bb horn for me, but have offered to locate an Eb. Can anyone provide me with some tips on making the temporary change; a fingering chart, or anything to help me through this? Appreciate it.

[MN_TimTuba]

Ron,
Borrow an Eb from Brett so you'll be ready before you get there. Or drive up this way and you can get familiar with mine!
Tim

[Mary Ann]

Try to use the same mouthpiece, or switch to a "more Eb" mouthpiece before you go --- and I think your main problem will be when you come back and that BBb suddenly requires so much air and effort than it did before.

[Grumpikins]

The above are excellent suggestions. I picked up a small Eb last year. Had never played one before. I was really surprised how easily I was able to switch. I thought it would be really difficult because when I switched to Cc in college, that was. For some reason the Eb just fell right in place.

I just told myself Eb scale, fingering pattern. Ok, F scale, fingering pattern. Etc. While going through the scales via fingering patterns, mentally naming the notes as I play them.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk

[TubātōTubŏtō]

Just don’t do it man. You’re gonna start ranting to your loved ones about how stupid it is no one started you on Eb back in your school days. You’re gonna wonder why the easiest to play, most versatile tubas aren’t standard fare stateside. It could leave you in a dark place when you come home, and there’s no Eb to greet you.

[2nd tenor]

As noted above, I’m traveling to Scotland in about a month with a local community band, and they are unable to find a Bb horn for me, but have offered to locate an Eb. Can anyone provide me with some tips on making the temporary change; a fingering chart, or anything to help me through this? Appreciate it.

Here’s a link to a fingering chart: https://norlanbewley.com/bewleymusic/tu ... e-eb-tuba/
I think that if you get to know where the open (no valve) notes fall then the rest will slot into place around them.

If you can borrow an Eb to play before you go then that’d help.

Unless the shank size is different (some old Tubas in the UK use a small shank receiver) your usual BBb mouthpiece should be fine enough in an Eb. I normally use a Wick 2L in my EEb and some would say that that is really a BBb piece. If you have a spare mouthpiece then one with a Bach 25 sized cup should be fine enough in any Eb Tuba - particularly so in the three valve range - and I’ve even played a small receiver Eb Tuba using a Bass Trombone mouthpiece. Leaving you favourite piece safely at home, and taking something adequate that you’re prepared to loose, has some logic to it …

Have you any details of the instrument that will be loaned to you?

If the instrument has been in storage then you might need to rinse it out and generally recommission it (bring your maintenance kit). As ever with such things there’s a chance that the mouthpiece is missing / the wrong size / damaged, that the slides and valves are stuck, and that the water key leaks. The valves will likely be worn so bring some thick oil. That’s life and to be fair your hosts are doing what they can …

Joking aside there is a real chance that once you’ve played the Eb for a few weeks you’ll wonder why any sane person would play a BBb . I think it’s just a case of enjoying the contrasting experiences, learning from them and accepting that ymmv applies .

It might be worth having a word or two with ‘Doc’, iirc he plays a lot of Eb Tubas.

You have, of course, checked that the community band uses bass clef (rather than transposed treble clef) for its Tuba parts …

I hope that you enjoy your visit to the UK.

[jtm]

...
You have, of course, checked that the community band uses bass clef (rather than transposed treble clef) for its Tuba parts …

Is it true that brass bands will most likely use Eb treble clef parts, but that a wind ensemble might use bass clef?

Either way, it should be easy enough to transpose, but it would be nice to know ahead of time so you can be prepared.

[arpthark]

cheat: if it's a 4v compensating Eb, you can just hold the fourth valve down and use 3v BBb fingerings and be somewhat close to in-tune.

[2nd tenor]

...
You have, of course, checked that the community band uses bass clef (rather than transposed treble clef) for its Tuba parts …

Is it true that brass bands will most likely use Eb treble clef parts, but that a wind ensemble might use bass clef?

Either way, it should be easy enough to transpose, but it would be nice to know ahead of time so you can be prepared.

Percussion excepted (because I’m not sure about them) the only instrument in a brass band that has music in bass clef is the bass trombone. In a wind band it’s common for the bass parts (Euphonium, Trombones and Tubas) to be in bass clef but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that that is not universal. Better to know beforehand than to get caught out.

Of course what’s the definition of a community band? I anticipate that that means wind, but depending on the community it could be either brass or wind ….

[ronr]

As noted above, I’m traveling to Scotland in about a month with a local community band, and they are unable to find a Bb horn for me, but have offered to locate an Eb. Can anyone provide me with some tips on making the temporary change; a fingering chart, or anything to help me through this? Appreciate it.

Joking aside there is a real chance that once you’ve played the Eb for a few weeks you’ll wonder why any sane person would play a BBb . I think it’s just a case of enjoying the contrasting experiences, learning from them and accepting that ymmv applies .

Thank you for the fingering chart. I visited the local music “superstore” today and they have a York Frankentuba that very much interested me. Going to go down tomorrow and give it a couple toots. This could be an expensive proposition, but you can’t take it with you, right?

[Mary Ann]

Just my comment on why a sane person would play a BBb: because no matter how good the player, when you get down a few leger lines, an Eb is not a BBb. If I had the air, and I wish I did, I'd be playing more places than I am, because I still have the opportunities.

As for Eb treble clef, some make the transition seamlessly and others for some reason cannot change the key signature in their heads, nor interpret natural signs as flats or sharp signs as naturals, on three notes. I enlightened one confused fellow in about three minutes a few years ago, and know another -- who is a MATH tutor -- who just can't get it.

[jtm]

As for Eb treble clef, some make the transition seamlessly and others for some reason cannot change the key signature in their heads, nor interpret natural signs as flats or sharp signs as naturals, on three notes. I enlightened one confused fellow in about three minutes a few years ago, and know another -- who is a MATH tutor -- who just can't get it.

It takes me a few minutes to switch, and I probably don’t read complicated passages as fast in Eb treble clef, but otherwise it’s usually fine. If I have a stack of music for a concert, I try to have it all in the same clef, because throwing a C bass clef part in the middle of a set of Eb treble clef parts is an invitation to miss some accidentals.

[2nd tenor]

As noted above, I’m traveling to Scotland in about a month with a local community band, and they are unable to find a Bb horn for me, but have offered to locate an Eb. Can anyone provide me with some tips on making the temporary change; a fingering chart, or anything to help me through this? Appreciate it.

Joking aside there is a real chance that once you’ve played the Eb for a few weeks you’ll wonder why any sane person would play a BBb . I think it’s just a case of enjoying the contrasting experiences, learning from them and accepting that ymmv applies .

Thank you for the fingering chart. I visited the local music “superstore” today and they have a York Frankentuba that very much interested me. Going to go down tomorrow and give it a couple toots. This could be an expensive proposition, but you can’t take it with you, right?

I’m told that you can’t take it with you, but until you’re actually gone you might still have need of it. Still a month’s holiday in Scotland won’t be cheap but might be spoiled if your musical experience is poor, arguably buying an Eb (to help secure enjoyment) is an investment, but it’s an individual choice. Some years back I bought a small three valve Eb for not much money, it’s given me a lot of pleasure and is amongst the best purchases that I’ve ever made.

Just my comment on why a sane person would play a BBb: because no matter how good the player, when you get down a few leger lines, an Eb is not a BBb. If I had the air, and I wish I did, I'd be playing more places than I am, because I still have the opportunities.

As for Eb treble clef, some make the transition seamlessly and others for some reason cannot change the key signature in their heads, nor interpret natural signs as flats or sharp signs as naturals, on three notes. I enlightened one confused fellow in about three minutes a few years ago, and know another -- who is a MATH tutor -- who just can't get it.

The Eb v BBb debate could go endlessly on and generally it’s a case of use what works for you (the individual). When asked to then I’ll drive either, but to my ear the Eb is more sonorous and driving a BBb is harder work for a gain that I mostly don’t need. I’d accept though that playing in the range that needs a fourth valve on a Eb is easier done on a BBb, but I pretty much never need to play that low. For other folk YMMV and that’s fine.

In theory the shift between bass clef and Eb transposed treble clef is easy (just add three sharps to the bass clef music) but in practice … well in theory theory and practice should be the same but in practice they’re (typically) not.

[Mary Ann]

As someone who is a multi-clef reader anyway, Eb treble is one of the easier ones -- for me it requires quite a bit more mental effort to play Bb treble clef like I had to do when I was playing euph / baritone. Since I didn't come up through a band program but as a piano / violin student, I didn't learn to read music by pushing pistons based on what I saw on the page. So I do it differently, and have memorized a bunch of clefs and can read them via a bunch of instruments. After violin and piano came viola, so there were three clefs before I even encountered "F horn clef." Eb treble was first on horn, and finally lastly on tuba. I would be temporarily stymied if I tried to play BBb parts in brass band. but I'd get there in a while.

[arpthark]

Re-reading your original post, are you going to Scotland with a US-based group and playing your normal US-based music while there? i.e., not playing treble clef British style brass band music or anything?

If yes, and if I have never played an Eb tuba and have no Eb reading chops and was expected to perform on one in a month, I would either write in all the Eb fingerings in my current music or see if I can get a compensating 4v Eb while I was there and keep the fourth valve down and play it as a 3v BBb.

[ronr]

Re-reading your original post, are you going to Scotland with a US-based group and playing your normal US-based music while there? i.e., not playing treble clef British style brass band music or anything?

If yes, and if I have never played an Eb tuba and have no Eb reading chops and was expected to perform on one in a month, I would either write in all the Eb fingerings in my current music or see if I can get a compensating 4v Eb while I was there and keep the fourth valve down and play it as a 3v BBb.

Yes that’s what I’m doing, and my current plan involves writing in fingerings. Thanks

[Mary Ann]

Ah knowing you will be playing music you already know on BBb would have changed the commentary -- maybe. A compensating Eb with the 4th valve held down so you can use BBb fingerings is going to be stuffy as hell, and I would recommend using the BBb mouthpiece. And reading Eb fingerings "suddenly" is also going to be difficult. My final comment is Best Of Luck!

[2nd tenor]

I visited the local music “superstore” today and they have a York Frankentuba that very much interested me. Going to go down tomorrow and give it a couple toots. This could be an expensive proposition, but you can’t take it with you, right?

Just wondering how that went for you? Playing on an Eb before you go would be ideal, even if its not your instrument one borrowed from some good soul would still be a plus.

I’ve don’t know how they sound or play but there’s what might well be considered a handy and appealing King on eBay at the moment: three valve *, Bell Front, Symphony Model. It’s overpriced (been re-listed many times) and it might not be near you but maybe something is negotiable. https://www.ebay.com/itm/375588602742?_ ... R4KOpo6tZA

* Folk argue endlessly about the number of valves and range. Three’s enough for a load of stuff, the occasional really low notes can be put up an octave, and this Eb tuba doesn’t need to replace a BBb. You might also strike lucky and find an Eb with wonderful false tones.

[humBell]

A glance through this thread
Others have said everything.
Play a mean Eb!