Let's not be snooty-poots towards (even) 70-80-year-olds who pronounce it "busher".

[bloke]

This ad (which probably - ?? - appeared about ten years after Selmer USA bought Buescher), taught a completely different pronunciation from that which the Buescher family taught in their much earlier ad (ie. "bisher").

Truth be told, the European pronunciation was probably (??) not quite either one, and I personally tend to suspect that - in Europe - a bit of the long-U sound was blended in to the long-I sound.

[Craig F]

Indeed the German ue (ü) sound does not exist in English so it ends up getting modified in various ways into an English phoneme. My surname has this letter and is pronounced as an English long e (ee) sound in America.

[MiBrassFS]

“Booooooosher!”

[Mary Ann]

Until recently corrected, I was saying byuw-sher (rhymes with "ewww!")
Now it's beesher. but it seems pronunciation varies.

I had similar problems with Cerveny.

[Teubonium]

I'm in my 80s and have always pronounced it "bisher". I grew up in MN, IL, IA and I never heard it pronounced any other way.

[bloke]

I'm in my 80s and have always pronounced it "bisher". I grew up in MN, IL, IA and I never heard it pronounced any other way.

Being born in 1944, you (as a young band student) were exposed to - not only the original pronunciation, but also - possibly the printed ads. (??)

[donn]

By analogy to other adaptations of this German vowel - consider us lucky, it could be pronounced like the U in Munich (aka München, and it isn't the only example of that transformation.)

I'm not a fluent speaker, but I did have a few years of German in school. The proposed English pronunciation of those vowels has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's supposedly better to pronounce Boehm "baym", or Buescher "bisher", apparently because while neither way we'd pronounce is at all like the German, if you have to pronounce it wrong, it's better to pronounce it in a wrong way that you wouldn't have chosen out of ignorance. (I know, they reportedly pronounced their own name that way. Cf. Gene Wilder as Frederick Fronkensteen.)

(Another variation that applies to words like Boehm is "berm", which I think really works but only if you pronounce "berm" as many do in England. I don't, so can't be sure about that.)

Just don't say "tyuba."

[bloke]

Just don't say "tyuba."

or the even-worse same-sourced version, "chuuber".

[peterbas]

Why bother with the right pronunciation in the original language.
All dutch/belgian/german... last names or all anglicised anyhow.

[bloke]

Why bother with the right pronunciation in the original language.
All dutch/belgian/german... last names or all anglicised anyhow.

Whether sarcastic or not and whether I agree with it or not, it's practical. I don't make people pronounce my name as do my cousins over in Deutschland. And why the hell do we call it Germany?

I've talked about my Dutch jazz piano player friend who's in his nineties and is still gigging. If you've read my posts, you might remember that he and his little boy friends played chicken with the luftwaffe strafing their streets.

His name is Koopman. A much easier way to say it is the correct way which in English would look more like "Copeman", but he's never argued with people and has just let them pronounce it as if it sounds like chicken "coop".

[peterbas]

Julius Caesar called the people in nowadays Belgium, Holland, North Germany the Germans.
But Germany has a lot of different names around the world.


Must be a great story, but you seem to forget I'm from Belgium, everybody here has lived or heard war stories from WOII.
I've once met a Sgt named Roosendaal and that name sounds about the same in both languages. He even got invited to the city hall in Roosendaal (NL).

[donn]

I've once met a Sgt named Roosendaal and that name sounds about the same in both languages.

I expect this would be thanks to the Roosevelts, who ironically came to the US from The Netherlands in the person of "Claes Maartenszen van Rosevelt." I think to this day there are a few who will pronounce it Rusavelt, though.

[peterbas]

The estate 'het Rosevelt' doesn't seem to be connected to the city of Roosendaal albeit they are only 25 km apart.

[peterbas]

One of those stories. This bomber crashed 100 meters behind my grandparent's house.

Commemorative plate in memory of the five killed crew members of the bomber Whitley V Z6586/ZA-F which was shot down by a German night fighter on the night of 16 to 17 August 1941

[dp]

Why bother with the right pronunciation in the original language.
All dutch/belgian/german... last names or all anglicised anyhow.

I dunno about "snooty poots".....

but I guess simple "poots" are acceptable?

b.t.w. it is pronounced bisher just like others already pointed out

[peterbas]

bisher like a German or an Englishman pronounces it?

[dp]

bisher like a German or an Englishman pronounces it?

At least thirty years ago I started writing to relatives/family friends in Eastern Bavaria (Regensburg) I was I suppose brave enough to do this because I'd gotten a language translation program for my computer and my cousin worked at the university, so we could e-mail.

I would write the e-mail in California/Dale-style english, copy and paste what I wrote into the language program, then copy and paste the results back into the e-mail and send it along. We corresponded like this for quite a while, so some time later when some family members came to visit, and told us how much fun they had deciphering Dale's "German" writing, it was a real hoot. (translation "hoot" = a lot of fun and very entertaining)

[bloke]

Google has become better and better at translating (not stating anything here that anyone doesn't already know).

I send stuff to non-English-speakers (and English secondary language people) in their language AND in English.

Many people (including me) run things back-and-forth between two languages and edit until the back-translation ends up very close to the original.

The AMERICAN Buescher family factory owners requested "bisher" in their ads.

My ONLY point was that - in a Selmer, USA ad, AFTER Buescher was bought by Selmer, USA - their ad specifically spelled out "busher" as how they (the then owners of the brand name) were pronouncing it.
------------------------------------------

So (getting into too much argumentative rhetoric here, admittedly)

Since "Bisher" is (yes?) a sort-of close to the original (but - very likely - not spot-on) European pronunciation...

ONCE THE Buescher family no longer owns the BRAND (and another entity owns the BRAND) cannot that new owner pronounce THEIR OWNED BRAND as they wish?

bloke "That was the ONLY point I was making...and the SAME point with my Koopman friend, who - simply - allowed others to pronounce it as they did...and ME - not giving a flying crap that 95% of people to pronounce my name 'Sellsmanberger" rather than 'Sellmansberger'...ie. So what?"

[dp]

<snip>95% of people to pronounce my name 'Sellsmanberger" rather than 'Sellmansberger'...ie. So what?"

when did you change it?

[bloke]

perfect response, @dp

----------------------

It's never good to kill a great comeback or joke with a serious remark, but here goes anyway:

- The Germans have spelled it all sorts of ways.
- Some of the old gravestones feature THREE L's.
- Those currently over there spell it with a SINGLE L.