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I still hope (??) to get this thing finished by April...probably not...(' got a bunch of customer work, for which I'm extremely grateful)...

...but I just discovered that my coming-along-nicely-but-on-hold-for-just-a-bit Holton tuba is actually SHORTER than this ("pocket BB-flat cimbasso"...???) thing:

ZO contraption length: 32.2''
Holton tuba length: 32.0"

Mmmm: I respectfully question that. This page says it's 23.2" tall, which matches my recollection. Another page seems to have transposed these numbers (check against mm figures).

UncleBeer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:43 pm Mmmm: I respectfully question that. This page says it's 23.2" tall, which matches my recollection. Another page seems to have transposed these numbers (check against mm figures).

Thanks...
That makes MUCH more sense.

I still can’t get over how bizarre looking that horn is.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:53 pm I still can’t get over how bizarre looking that horn is.

It’s as difficult to hold as it is to look at!!

Three Valves wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:01 pm

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:53 pm I still can’t get over how bizarre looking that horn is.

It’s as difficult to hold as it is to look at!!

What could this possibly used for? Too big to act as travel tuba, not good enough to be a 3/4.

Maybe the first 1/2 tuba

Regardless of who seems to demo them, they sound like they can sort of be played in tune.

THIS thread hasn't been bumped in a while, has it?

I have MUCHO work to do for others (related to "income generation/buying groceries/paying light bills/etc."), but today I'm going to grab the figurative maul-and-wedge, smash a crack in the calendar, and see what I can get done towards (though no polishing or finish work) getting it gig-ready (as I have a quintet job Saturday, and would LIKE to see what sort of a "manly BB-flat player" I can manage to be, when using the longest-length of tuba to play chamber music (something I've never done, other than to grab a school sousaphone and play ONE quintet tune on it at an in-school concert, to show that band students that "it's not the horn".)

> Considering 5th rotor servicing issues, I'm going to REVERSE one of the tubes on the adjacent #3 slide, which (when that slide is removed) will offer rotor stem accessibility.
> 5th circuit wise, I'm going to remove the outside slide, shorten both legs by an inch (reminder, an FF semitone allowing for 5-4 played B♮ and E♮...with any possible requested E♭'s - down low played via 5-2-4, D's being 2-3-4, D♭'s being 5-2-3-4 or 1-2-3-4, double-low C being "all valves down" and - if ever requested - double-low B♮ requiring some slide-pulling, as there are plenty available to pull, on this instrument), reinstall them more aligned with the instrument body, and brace one of those 5th circuit outside slide tubes to the instrument's bugle.
> 5th lever wise, I'd LIKE to see if I can also get that fabricated, today.
> OTHER-wise, there are one or two braces that I would like to add and/or replace. (There's one round-foot that needs to be swapped out - cosmetically - for a diamond-foot...as the UPPER brace on the same slide tube is a conspicuous diamond.)

I doubt if I'll get all of that done, but - IF I do, AND there's still time before the weeknightly two episodes of Hogan's Heroes come on at 9 P.M. - I might clean off some green acid residue, vent the pistons, and do some other needed "gig-ready" stuff.

Something I've FAILED to do is to place an order with Conn-Selmer for a gob of nice small King-style water keys...so I'll place that order after posting this...
...but I believe I can use it at a gig sans waterkeys (and - as gig temps might only be c. 60° - do a bunch of annoying slide-pulling/water-dumping, as do horn players and those tuba players who believe that water key nipples affect SCFM's and "nodes"...but please don't ask many of them to display their melodic minor arpeggios prowess).

(I REALLY like tooting on this thing...I'd really-REALLY like to be able to "play" it.)

(later...) Finish-wise, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to shine it up, shoot clear on it, and mark ☑ it done.
I won't scratch my name into it anywhere, as that would surely warn people off of buying it - when my descendants liquidate my leftover crap.

I ended up doing paperwork and emailing others - encouraging them to pay us...

...but I still got some stuff done on this thing.

no thumb trigger, because (well...) I realized that they thumb trigger must line up with (psst: ancient Chinese secret) the THUMB...and I haven't yet installed a thumb ring, due to an absurdly-long thumb ring bracket back-order...so I pulled a similar bracket (just fine) off a (not just fine) Jinbao junkyard tuba. (I'm trying to not go much above $1K in total cash layout, anyway, so...)

There is additional chat re: this project on Terry's fb "Frankentubas" page...
(questions/answers)
I won't copy/paste here, and I'm sure Terry welcomes anyone to have a look, there.

a couple more things...
(5th valve lever incomplete parts)
probably difficult-to-visualize as complete...

I actually got that stuff mounted on the instrument, but I'd like to wait to update pictures until I have it attached to the rotor and functioning (tomorrow?)

I have a quintet gig on Saturday afternoon...If I can get it working well enough by then (though no water keys, yet), I might drag it to the gig. The FIRST day I unpacked this thing from the eBay seller (beat to crap, clanky, loose solder joints, and 3-valve top-action), I took it THAT NIGHT to play another similar quintet gig...(The host displayed a dismayed look on his face...but it made nice sounds...and - by the time we started - no one could see what it looked like, anyway. )

The reason that I don't already have the 5th valve rigged up yet is because Dave Kirk showed up from Houston yesterday with a couple of his instruments, along with one of Mike Lynch's (nice-playing) go-to instruments and another south Texas friend's instrument...so I stayed pretty busy last night and today...and he's on his way home with all four of them.

Another tuba player friend, Mike Marois - a direct descendant of Dukes of Dixieland royalty "Papa" Jac Assunto ( https://i.imgur.com/9HVQIkq.jpg ) - showed up today with his "double" (switchable from E-flat to CC) helicon. He left it here so (hopefully) I can make it length-switchable on-the-fly... We'll see. (There still has to be room - inside the "circle" of that thing for a human to fit, too.)

BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THIS HOLTON BB♭ PROJECT: Tomorrow, I'd like to THINK that I'll get the 5th rotor stuff rockin' and take some "ooh-ahh" pictures of the thumb ring, lever, links, and action arm all attached. It's an INCREDIBLY simple design (whereby there aren't many moving parts, and not much weight/mass in the parts that will move). Maybe (??), it's a bit "elegant"...but it's hard for something that "isn't much" to be tremendously elegant - other than "in it's simplicity". I'm not much for wiz-bangs...I like "feels good to my hand" and I like "works just fine" (but sure: I do also like "looks pretty good").

This design is NOT the most trouble-free as far as building (as there was no margin for error), but is the most compact, and fits my own hand the best of anything that occurred to me (and several things occurred to me, some of which would have been simpler to fit on to the instrument but none of which would have been any simpler - as far as design - to fabricate).
PART of the challenge, here, was that - when one of the original objectives was to "bury" the valveset down into the cavity of the instrument as deeply as possible, that doesn't leave a whole bunch "up top" to which one can attach gadgetry, and most of the other ways would have defined that my hand's thumb travel would have exceeded the length of the stop-arm nib's travel.
Again: this entire gig (unlike any tuba I've built before) has TOTALLY involved "free-stylin' "...which is FUN, but (well...) also requires on-the-fly problem-solving (much like I see with many others' projects), whereas all of my past projects have involved thinking out every last detail, and (thus) no surprises and with nothing remaining other than "the doing of it".




economy of materials:
The nickel-brass cylinder - that articulates my thumb - is the chunk that I cut off the thumb ring bracket.

The throw range (as the travel is a portion of a spherical curve) is about 8/10" between the two spots that it clonks against the #1 circult tubing closest to the valve casings (as it just misses the other circuit tube at the apex of its swing). I only need about 6/10" of travel, and the 6/10" smack in the middle of that 8/10" feels just perfect to my thumb - so 8/10" of travel is plenty...
...so why do I stick stuff together in such close quarters - just so it feels "just right" to my hand? ...because I can.


Oh yeah...a surprise back-order of of Conn-Selmer water key assemblies (I used 'em up on repairs) arrived today...so I guess I'm using these on this project, which is going to consume six of them.

better idea:

I'm mounting the link on the bottom of the lever's lower stick, rather than on the side of it.

If any of you would like to come down to blokeplace today and spray several acres of weeds, I could put the finishing touches (mechanical/soldering) on this instrument…

OK…
I promised it would be simple. It is simple:

VIDEO: https://i.imgur.com/B5Il5hy.mp4

==========================================



REMINDER:
This is a BB-flat tuba, and the 5th valve circuit is a long SEMITONE (NOT whole-tone).
Unlike CC tubas, BB-flat tubas do NOT need a 5th valve to play "low F"...(Simply - of course, it's played with the 4th valve.)
That having been said, BB-flat tubas have the same crappy problem as all tubas: 1-2-3 is stupid-sharp, 2-4 is badly-sharp, and 2-3-5 (with a long whole-tone 5th valve) is flat. ...so here's a 5th valve circuit whereby B-natural is "on the nose" with 1-3-5, and E-natural is "on the nose" with 4-5 (again: The 5th circuit is an FF SEMITONE).



...and no, I'm not going to use it "just because" (ie. "ooh-ooh...new toy"...' gotta play it") on my freeway philharmonic's 60th anniversary jubilee concert next month.
I'm going to use my F tuba on Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra (one of the world's epic yawners for tuba), and
I'm going to use my cimbasso on the Liszt piano spectacular, Totentanz (to render forth the Dies Irae theme as scary as possible).

I believe this tuba could use one more main slide brace (to stabilize the large side main outside slide and the rotor casing just a little bit more, and (yup) all of those water keys need to be stuck on and drilled, and...I need to swap out the metal guides for delrin ones...and trim 1/8 inch off each of the valve stems, so...

bloke "as previously stated: 'free-stylin' "

Someone asked where I got that small gauge black shaft material for the action arm.
===========================================
It's a rusty ol' 1/8" diameter (a baby hair over 3mm diameter) saxophone (Bundy/Buescher...??) steel rod that was messed up on both ends.
I cut it off, threaded the ends to M3x.5, and installed it. It probably would work just as well with the rust cleaned off, but I just can't be absolutely sure, so...

If I carve out time to polish this thing and shoot clear on it, I might "risk" shining up that steel shaft and shooting some clear on it, too...though (again) it may well affect the sound. ...or I could hit it with flat black, and tell everyone that it's "high-tech" carbon fiber.

bloke "Again...I'm really striving to not get very into the $XXXX range (total cash outlay - though I probably breached that...as the customary charge labor - or even "brother-in-law" priced labor to make all this stuff into a "tuba" - would define this thing as "costing" a good bit) with this project.
It may only be a B-flat tuba , but it's MY B-flat tuba !!!

bloke "I guess this is how I alienate some people...because a few people don't 'get' my sarcasm/self-deprecation."

POST SCRIPT:
We're heading into North Mississippi, today, to deliver that odd-ball 60-year-old Miraphone tuba (sold), a couple of JP 3/4 tubas (sold), to deliver a repaired bass clarinet, a band director's fancy saxophone, a repaired coach's son's euphonium, and (saved from the crap-pile) a school-owned almost-ruined-valve trumpet...Then, off to another school to pick up a van-load of sousaphones and marching baritones to un-fug. At one of the schools, I'm going to work with an 8th-grade young lady who - I'm told - is very excited about "the tuba". I guess I'll bring this little Holton, so I'll be playing something that's the most similar to her instrument. I do not teach "lessons", but I am willing to - sporadically - "work with kids, show them things about playing, and to let them know what others are more interested in - ex: low range, much more than high range, etc...".

eight hour trip into Mississippi today… That’s a long time to be in Mississippi...
Nice folks, though.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:05 pmThat’s a long time to be in Mississippi...

Try twenty-eight years…

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:05 pm eight hour trip into Mississippi today… That’s a long time to be in Mississippi...
Nice folks, though.

Never been - I’ve been wanting to visit some of the filming locations for “O Brother, Where Art Thou” (one of my all-time favorite pictures)