TubaForum.net

I oil up before each and every playing session:

Schiller/Jinbao JBBB-520 tuba: Hetman #3. Switching to Yamaha Vintage Synthetic was a sticky, gunky disaster.

Yamaha YEP-321S euphonium: Have used Al Cass since it was new in 1994. Valves are like new and never stick.

Trumpets/Cornets: VIncent Bach regular oil. Al Cass and Blue Juice don't last throughout my playing sessions, but the Bach oil reliably holds up.

Worn valves: Al Cass thickened with O'Reilly Auto Parts (OAP) Full Synthetic 0W-20. Unlike most synthetic motor oil, the OAP oil doesn't have much of an odor.

I could probably standardize on Bach oil for everything, with OAP Synthetic 0W-20 added as needed. Before I do that, though, I'll give the Ultra Pure lamp oil a whirl.

I found an easy solution. I play rotors.
I found the kerosene ones like blue juice don't even last a rehearsal, when I had pistons. I went to the very expensive but long lasting Alisyn, which I also used in my horn (a tuba is not a horn; it is a tuba. A horn is a horn.)

Pistons require being oiled more often because there is so much more contact area. Rotors are built/designed to barely miss hitting the casings on the otherwise articulating surfaces and only contact at the spindle ends on the top and bottom.

The only reason for oiling large outer surfaces of rotors and their nearly-articulating casings is to deal with foreign material and oxidation as a way to smoothly scuff it off and drain it away, but this needs to be done every time a person plays.

Using oil that claims to or seems to stay on.pistons or rotors for a long time defeats the main purpose of oiling... along with causing the consumer of the oil to spend really ridiculously high prices per ounce for oil.

I can't justify telling people to stop spending five or six dollars an ounce on valve oil, just as I can't justify suggesting to people that they stop spending money on anything else in particular. It's none of my business. That having been said, it doesn't stop me from stating facts.

Hey... There are some mouthpieces that can be found on eBay for under $30. The mouthpieces I sell cost considerably more than that. Who am I to tell people to not spend five or six dollars an ounce for oil?

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 am (a tuba is not a horn; it is a tuba. A horn is a horn.)

It's even worse when people call Woodwinds Horns. Even worse than that is when people think Saxophones are Brass instruments.

Craig F wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:55 pm

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 am (a tuba is not a horn; it is a tuba. A horn is a horn.)

It's even worse when people call Woodwinds Horns. Even worse than that is when people think Saxophones are Brass instruments.

...so are saxophones - then - "brassreeds" ?

What are the new names for English horns and basset horns?

("cor" is French for "horn")

bloke "...tomāto/tomăto...Let's call the whole thing off."

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:13 pm

Craig F wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 1:55 pm

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 am (a tuba is not a horn; it is a tuba. A horn is a horn.)

It's even worse when people call Woodwinds Horns. Even worse than that is when people think Saxophones are Brass instruments.

...so are saxophones - then - "brassreeds" ?

What are the new names for English horns and basset horns?

("cor" is French for "horn")

bloke "...tomāto/tomăto...Let's call the whole thing off."

Alto/tenor oboe (seeing as the octave-lower-than-concert-oboe instrument is called baritone [baryton] by at least one make) and F alto clarinet (makes sense to me)? Oboe da gamba? (Might suggest too low but follows the oboe d'Amore in A...)

On topic...

I use the Holton rotary oil for rotor bodies and ultra pure for the Bombino (once the included Venture oil that's similar to Al Cass is used up) and euphonium pistons. Also have Yamaha spindle oil, Hetman #14 for the Holton 168 bearings and also bass trombone Minibal links, and #15 for the 2103's ball joints.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 2:13 pm ...so are saxophones - then - "brassreeds" ?

What are the new names for English horns and basset horns?

("cor" is French for "horn")

Brass and Woodwind names come from the material they were initially made from. Flutes were made of wood long before metal ones came about. Clarinets also come in different materials such as plastic and ebonite. Saxes because they're just modified Clarinets. It would be awkward to make up new names for these that cover all bases. Then Flutes would have to be separated from Reeds, etc.

I read recently that the English in English horn was a mistranslation of Angelic. So, we already have Oboe d'Amore so how about Oboe d'Angelico?

Basset Horn > Basset Clarinet. I know those already exist, usually in A, but adding one in F wouldn't be so bad. Technically a Basset Horn should be narrow bore as opposed to the Alto Clarinet's larger bore. But that broke down years ago, so Alto Clarinet could also work.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 am I found an easy solution. I play rotors.
I found the kerosene ones like blue juice don't even last a rehearsal, when I had pistons. I went to the very expensive but long lasting Alisyn, which I also used in my horn (a tuba is not a horn; it is a tuba. A horn is a horn.)

This topic has come up before. I call my tuba my “horn” and have for decades, along with most if not all of the other tuba players I’ve encountered in my life. Granted, I have never met our fellow forum-ite Mary Ann But the thing is, it’s just a slang term. As in “Hey man, what kind of horn ya got?” Much in the same way classical violinists say “Who made your fiddle?” I have heard even Itzhak Perlman refer to his Stradivarius as his “fiddle”. And I don’t think anyone thinks he’s headed to a square dance any more than people think I play the French horn when I call my tuba my “horn”. This phenomenon also extends to trumpet players. I’ve often heard them refer to their “horns”. For further evidence I submit the well known movie “Young Man With a Horn”, which was about a trumpet player.

LOL...I was "schooled"...stuff out of band directors' mouths in 8th grade...

...how we got from valve oil to this stuff...??

yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah...as the Irish would say...

I succeeded in trolling someone! Woo hoo!
When is a horn a horn? When it's not a tuba!

If you're thinking it's me, I was just throwing more stink bait out into the water to draw more fish to the bait that was on the hook.
In other words, I saw you over there standing on the bank and just thought I'd give you a hand. I probably could have said something about Trump (etc.) to stir up the $h!t a bit more, but I just chose to type some stupid stuff instead.

Ha, wasn't you and you just trolled yourself.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 8:49 am Ha, wasn't you and you just trolled yourself.

I know who it was. I suspect you knew that I was just putting icing on your cake.

Trombotine + Blue Juice

Lasts weeks, no gunk, and when they do start to go they get slow rather than sticky. I much prefer a valve being slightly slow than suddenly going from fast to stuck.

I'd go for unscented lamp oil. Mix it with a heavier oil if that's what your valves need.
Valve oil and lamp oil are the same: it's all paraffine.

For those who might remember, I experimented with putting in a bit of mineral oil with the lamp oil...but most all of my valves' tolerances - happily - are too close for much of anything heavier than straight lamp oil...

...the 43-year-old F tuba and the 50-year-old sousaphone...maybe (??) but - truth be told - not worth the difference.

I use straight mineral oil for one or two slides on one or two tubas, as well as for all small moving parts and hinge joints. Walmart's "Equate" mineral oil is roughly $2/lb. (POUND...not ounce).

HEAVILY oiling during EVERY playing session promotes interior CLEANLINESS, ENCOURAGES dirt/slime to find its way out (traditional/large nipple opening) water keys, and DISCOURAGES hard scale deposits. I personally do NOT feel that I can afford to engage in this tack if spending $6/oz. for "valve oil", but CAN afford to consistently engage in this practice with 24¢/oz. (or less) lamp oil.

my instruments:
I sell well-made Chinese tubas and a whole bunch of you own them...but all of my personal instrument are more costly European, Japanese, or older domestically manufactured instruments...Were it that I truly believed that there is actually some benefit derived from $6/oz. oil, I would somehow budget for it.

@bloke the info on the mineral oil is enlightening. I will have to check that out. As far as lamp oil for valves, would something like this be what you would purchase?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Ultra- ... /610186055

tubatodd wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:54 am @bloke the info on the mineral oil is enlightening. I will have to check that out. As far as lamp oil for valves, would something like this be what you would purchase?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Ultra- ... /610186055

I'm not a fan of Amazon, but - every few years - I make an exception, use a relative's "prime" account, and buy two of the cheapest-priced GALLON size.

I use LAMP OIL on MOST slides on MOST of my instruments - in order to avoid viscosity migration (which is what ACTUALLY is occuring when people wrongly accuse this-or-that valve oil of "gumming up".

This is ALSO why I generally avoid silver plated instruments...so I can precision-align all the slides (without ruining any silver finishes) which ALLOYS me to use very thin oil on slides (rather than grease).

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:57 am

tubatodd wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 8:54 am @bloke the info on the mineral oil is enlightening. I will have to check that out. As far as lamp oil for valves, would something like this be what you would purchase?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Ultra- ... /610186055

I'm not a fan of Amazon, but - every few years - I make an exception, use a relative's "prime" account, and buy two of the cheapest-priced GALLON size.

I use LAMP OIL on MOST slide on MOST of my instruments - in order to avoid viscosity migration (which is what ACTUALLY is occuring when people wrongly accuse this-or-that valve oil of "gumming up".

This is ALSO why I generally avoid silver plated instruments...so I can precision-align all the sludes (without ruining any silver) which ALLOYS me to use very thin oil on slides (rather than grease).

Do you get a paraffin-based lamp oil or kerosene-based? Any particular brands you've used or prefer? Thanks in advance.

"ultrapure paraffin"...

Kerosene is odorous,

though OLD-OLD paraffin becomes putrid (just as with old-old valve oil and old-old gasoline).