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LeMark wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 5:34 pm The funny thing is, a piggy is about 33 inches tall and has a 16 bell. It's just a matter of the plumpness of the tuba that would factor in if the piggy would fit in the bag you proposed

"Someone" could make a chart of the dimensions of tubas and find a way to divide them into size classes, and go from there, like with XYZ sizes. Seems that finding the fattest tuba of X height, finding the tallest of that general class of tubas, and a bag size based on those two things would be a great approach. Not simple but doable.

And a comment on strap placement; I know I'm not the only one with a problem with the tuba banging the back of your thighs or knees, if you are not a tall person. Standard design seems to be that the straps are attached 1/3 of the way down from the bell, no matter how tall the bag is. So smaller bags, even the Miraphone bag for the NStar, I can use, but bigger bags, I cannot simply because the straps are 1/3 of the way down from the top; position depends entirely on the length of the bag instead of the ergonomics of wearing it for people of various heights. You basketball stars can likely wear any bag but we jockeys have a problem. And I would guess that occasionally the basketball stars have bell-impacting-top-of-doorway problems.

How much until they go up in price as more models are offered? Messina used to be cheap and are some of the more expensive bags. I ask this due to my consideration below.

I ask this because my Miraphone bag for my CC is now 15 years old. Zippers have been the only issue, but I put a key ring on where they have broken off. The bottom feet are starting to come off, but something I could sew or superglue on.

I suspect I have about 5-6 years I can get out of it (hoping more), but if these are going to be this affordable and good, I might consider investing if they have something that works while it is much cheaper.

> The smallest major size would be all of the 14-inch bell Yamaha 3/4 clones, and this includes the front-action professional models, the old 103 front-action model which would fit in the same bag, and then I think the top-action ones would still fit in the same bag, because don't have valves that stick out on either side. I don't think there are that many sold which are the parenthetical versions which have 16 inch bells, but if you wanted to sacrifice fit, you could make these fit 16-inch bells. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of 14-inch bell owners would be pretty disappointed in the fit, were they to do that. Perhaps if they did fit 16 inch bells, the 15-in bell F tubas Alexander, a few other things, and maybe a few people that had some goofball 15-in bell instruments like the student King and an old Besson E-flat would also fit in this bag ...so maybe 16-inches is a good idea.

> The next size would fit full size F tubas which I believe are 16.5 inch bell and 38-in height. They might make these just bag enough to fit an old style 186. These would probably also easily accommodate the Olds and Reynolds with the 16-in bells, but the 5J would probably need to go in the next size below, due to bell diameter.

> The next size would be the up to 20 inch bell shorter tubas, and that bag probably needs to accommodate up to a 37 inch height. This would be stuff like Eastman 4/4 C instruments and King new-style B-flats and all of that type of thing... including several discontinued models (Getzen/CB - Holton-Phillips) and old 4/4 short version York and Holton.

> The next thing would be the 5/4 tubas and those probably need to accommodate a 39 inch height and up to a 19-inch bell.

> The size after that would be all of the Yorkaphones, and they probably need to be big enough to accommodate a Holton 345 B-flat. I suspect my rotary Miraphone model 98 would also fit in such a bag.

Any more sizes than that (and yes, I ignored a whole bunch of stuff that's either a little too big or a little too small for these major groups) would probably not be very big sellers and would require them to jack up the prices of all of the sizes even more to subsidize producing two, three, or more additional low-selling sizes.

If I still had a brick and mortar store, I wouldn't want to have all this stuff in stock, and I tend to suspect - for most dealers - ProTec would be forced to be the de facto retail warehouse and wait for stores to special order these models, just like Torpedo is having to wait for people to special order specific sizes of Cronkhite tuba bags. I would suspect that the only retailer today that would be willing to stock all of this stuff would be Music & Arts.

Were I Pro Tec, I might speak politely to people like Mark Finley at TMEA and might even patronize someone who's "all in" for the tuba, but wouldn't genuinely consider producing even the five sizes (in any quality grade) listed above, because I just don't think it fits within their business model.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 2:39 pm > The smallest major size would be all of the 14-inch bell Yamaha 3/4 clones, and this includes the front-action professional models, the old 103 front-action model which would fit in the same bag, and then I think the top-action ones would still fit in the same bag, because don't have valves that stick out on either side. I don't think they're that many sold which are the parenthetical versions which have 16 inch Bells, but if you wanted to sacrifice fit, you could make these fit 16 inch Bells. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of 14-inch bell owners would be pretty disappointed in the fit, were they to do that. Perhaps if they did fit 16 inch bells, the 15-in Bell F tubas would also fit in this bag so maybe 16 is a good idea

The next size would fit full size F tubas which I believe are 16 and a half inch Bell and 38-in height. They might make these just bag enough to fit an old style 186.

> the next size would be the up to 20 inch bell shorter tubas, and that case probably needs to accommodate up to a 37 inch height. This would be stuff like Eastman 4/4 C instruments and King new-style B-flats and all that type of thing.

> The next thing would be the 5/4 tubas and those probably need to accommodate a 39 inch bell and up to an 19 inch bell.

> The size after that would be all of the Yorkaphones, and they probably need to be big enough to accommodate a Holton 345 B-flat. I suspect my rotary Miraphone model 98 would also fit in such a bag.

Any more sizes than that (and yes, I ignored a whole bunch of stuff that's either a little too big or a little too small for these major groups) would probably not be very big sellers and would require them to jack up the prices of all of the sizes to subsidize producing two, three, or more low additional low-selling sizes.

This just about says it. They could do pretty well with this as a map.

If you care to edit, I was still editing my post when you were quoting it. I fixed a bunch of goofs.

russiantuba wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 1:23 pm How much until they go up in price as more models are offered? Messina used to be cheap and are some of the more expensive bags. I ask this due to my consideration below.

I ask this because my Miraphone bag for my CC is now 15 years old. Zippers have been the only issue, but I put a key ring on where they have broken off. The bottom feet are starting to come off, but something I could sew or superglue on.

I suspect I have about 5-6 years I can get out of it (hoping more), but if these are going to be this affordable and good, I might consider investing if they have something that works while it is much cheaper.

I just happened to be on the Dillon site and in passing saw that Miraphone bags took a large jump in price since I bought one last year. When I bought mine I was surprised they hadn’t taken the typical post covid jump in price that most stuff had. Looks like they have since caught up with a 30% or so jump. Zippers do seem to be one area that a lot of manufacturers have gotten cheap on in clothing and gig bags etc. - which is the one place I’d prefer they didn’t.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 2:58 pm If you care to edit, I was still editing my post when you were quoting it. I fixed a bunch of goofs.

Yu dud? I nver deit my poosts…

tofu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 11:29 pm

russiantuba wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 1:23 pm How much until they go up in price as more models are offered? Messina used to be cheap and are some of the more expensive bags. I ask this due to my consideration below.

I ask this because my Miraphone bag for my CC is now 15 years old. Zippers have been the only issue, but I put a key ring on where they have broken off. The bottom feet are starting to come off, but something I could sew or superglue on.

I suspect I have about 5-6 years I can get out of it (hoping more), but if these are going to be this affordable and good, I might consider investing if they have something that works while it is much cheaper.

I just happened to be on the Dillon site and in passing saw that Miraphone bags took a large jump in price since I bought one last year. When I bought mine I was surprised they hadn’t taken the typical post covid jump in price that most stuff had. Looks like they have since caught up with a 30% or so jump. Zippers do seem to be one area that a lot of manufacturers have gotten cheap on in clothing and gig bags etc. - which is the one place I’d prefer they didn’t.

I got a couple of Miraphone bags from music&arts way cheaper than that. I suspect it was older stock, but glad I did when I did, which was pretty recent.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2025 9:29 am I can't remember the brand name, but an interesting idea was those bags that probably quit being made quite a few years ago that had a thick sheet of plastic rolled around everything else underneath the cordura nylon.
Of course, they had to be top loading to have this rolled up thick plastic embedded in them. Another problem was that the thick sheet of plastic made them weigh something between a regular bag weight and a hard case weight. The additional weight taxed the carrying handles, and sometimes they would fail.

There is a German brand, Gewa, that makes a line of bags with fiberglass inserted around the foam. Can't find any first hand information on them, and while I like the idea some of the design choices (zipper design, handle attachment) seem odd. No weight listed either, so hard to say if it would have the same issue.

https://gewawinds.com/en/product/gewa-g ... a-sps/4657

(Late to the interesting discussions as usual.)

Finding a couple other sizes to get the best almost fit sizes does feel like a useful thing to do.

I kinda want to come up with some clever ameans of adjustability. (So if have any further thoughts, they will be half baked, and so i'll devote them to a bad ideas thread)

I guess the one question to ask here is can they be made somewhat modularly? So ask for a bell profile to be put on a body profile? Or would this mean that there was a weak point attaching the two?

humBell wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 2:59 pm I guess the one question to ask here is can they be made somewhat modularly? So ask for a bell profile to be put on a body profile? Or would this mean that there was a weak point attaching the two?

While the original post started with a mention of a hard case, the whole "Important post for the tuba community" thread seems to be about bags. In that context, however they're attached, they just have to stay attached - in terms of fending off destruction, bags are made entirely of weak points.

Though a bag does sort of ward off some potential damage, like ... where your valve assembly doesn't quite clear the door jamb, a bag will potentially divert the impact. That works when the bag itself has a little rigidity and doesn't conform too much to the parts it's protecting. If the bag is made of mix and match parts, you might want to be able to stiffen up the assembly with something kind of like the inserts that have been used in backpacks over the years.

Or I guess anyone could just buy an oversize bag and glue some filler pillows in to get down to an acceptable fit.

This thread has me curious now. Do most of you prefer a soft case to a hard one? And is it common for tubas not to include a case with purchase?

I haven't used a hard case in decades. 1987 to be exact.

I prefer a hard case, but don't use it. Impractically bulky and heavy.

Depends, though, on what you're doing. Tour with a van full of instruments? Hard case. Lugging the tuba from the parking lot across a sizable festival grounds? Bag.

Bags...

I play most gigs on sousaphone and often carpool... and there is no way I could fit 2 sousaphone hard cases in my Old Suburu Outback. Also being a father of a teenage tuba player... we are carrying him all over for rehearsals etc.. bag is much more convenient. Last year he was in an honor band where he was playing tuba and double bass... That was an exercise in spatial and domestic relations every time we loaded three car.

Another very practical reason for me.. a hobbyist with a bunch of honky noise makers in different shapes and sizes... keeping hard cases around just takes up way too much space in my house. Bags can be stuffed inside each other and take to much less space.

DonO. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 7:53 pm

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2025 5:42 pm Their current bag is billed as a 3/4 sized bag, but it is a bit roomy for most true 3/4 horns. Maybe they could offer a couple different sized pads for the smaller ones?

The sizes that come to mind would be something 186-ish, something King 2341/Eastman 632-ish, and something 6/4 Yorkophone sized. That leaves kind of a gap in the 5/4 size, but (guessing) most people buying Thors or PT-6s are probably springing for more expensive bags.

Yes! Their “3/4” size bag has an 18” bell and is 40” long WITH the pad! 42” without! Does that sound like any 3/4 size tuba that anyone here has ever heard of? I want them to make a TRUE 3/4 size bag...

The current Platinum series fits a Rudy 3/4CC great, I've often joked that it must be the 3/4 they based it on. The same bag fits a YBB641 and Miraphone 186 well too. This bag should have it's name changed, but is fine as is.

The King 2341 bag is the majority of Cronkhite's sales in tuba bags right now, based on the conversation I had with their sales manager at the Army Workshop. It fits all of the Eastman 4/4 tubas which are really dominating the new market right now. I don't think that would need to be much of a discussion. Also that should fit some other smaller bell tubas with some of the clever removable padding that Protec is known to do on other cases.

I would make the 3rd size to fit the typical 6/4 models, but I would be curious again if you were able to add some removable padding to make it compatible with a 6450 AND the Eastman/Yamaha/Wessex/etc York copies. I believe it would be possible with the clamshell style bags

If they were open to a 4th size, I would make it a true 3/4 bag for bass tubas and small contrabasses.

FWIW I've also mentioned this to them while they were here on a visit before our old accessories manager retired after 35 years. They seemed very open to it, but I imagine there is more market research to be done. I tried with the new Gator bags when we were helping with prototypes. The bags they came out with are nice, but they did not listen to us about the sizing. They are really small.

I´d suggest a procedure as follows:
- define a set of measurements YOU need in order to make a bag that perfectly fits a horn of these measurements.
- survey the most commonly sold horns and their dimensions (duh).
Take those measurements YOURSELF at one of the huge tuba outlets who have ALL the horns, in Germany that would be Thomann or FMB.
Yes, that may be a field trip taking several days, but it´ll be faster and more reliable than collecting data from manufacturers by eMailing hesitant
secretaries.
Do NOT rely on somebody else´s data, take your own.

MY uninformed suggestions for a data table:
- length overall
- Bell diameter
- Body width from large branch to large branch,
- Body depth from rear to front (idk ... seperate measurments for valve buttons necessary?)

- develop a system of replaceable and interchangeable padding for INDEPENDENT body length-, body width-, and bell circumference adjustment
(I´m thinking of padding to be velcroed into the standard sized bags) resulting in medium, one-up and one-down options for EACH measurement.
- Design bags with all-medium-padding to fit the most popular tuba models.
- In your catalogue on your website, publish INFORMATIVE size data of your bags and the horn size range these were designed for:
No, do NOT write useless info such as "fits Melton Fafner" or "designed for York-style CC". Non-info like that drives me mad everytime I´m shopping for bags.
- Provide actual measurement data as you´d need to design a new bag for a new size. A graph of a generic tuba depicting how to take those measurements would help, too.
- Offer an ordering form to fill in basic bag size and choice of each piece of padding individually.

- in order to not pi**-off potential business partners, publish an anonymised (is that a word? I mean data sets of popular models without giving their names) list of common horn dimensions and suggested padding combinations.
- Provide trusted retailers with the model names as well, or just leave it to them to figure that out for themselves for easier customer service.