Rick Denney wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:59 pm
If the difference between plastic and brass isn't enough to make it not sound like a tuba (or break out of that 2-4% effect), then I doubt the work-hardening of the brass makes much of a difference, with all respect to my old friend dp.
...
I've heard all the arguments about this brass versus that brass when comparing York bells, and I've tried several of those made more recently (such as by Zig Kanstul) that purportedly capture the brass properties used by York. I remain unpersuaded. For one thing, Yorks are old, and their bells have been rolled out, annealed, and rolled out again, sanded, and buffed to I bet no more than half their original thickness. People still rave about them when they play them, and recognize them as something special.
I understood that to be exactly the point - if this brass or that brass could make any difference in York bells, work hardening will likely make a still larger difference - and since that's a variable factor, you can expect no reliable significant difference in York bell material.
Whether there could at any rate be some significant difference, from the properties of the material, is a separate question. I happen to have a tuba with Kanstul's "special alloy" bell, so I'd be happy to hear that I'm getting the premium tone out of it thanks to that, but in reality it's more like "bling", and as such a very good thing.
Re: Bells
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:04 pm
by TubātōTubŏtō
windshieldbug wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:21 pm
If anyone thinks material is the gating factor, just sit in a hall and listen to Chuck Daellenbach light up his plastic bell and tell me how important it is...
I hate to be that guy, but technically Chuck’s bell is carbon fiber, which does seem like a worthy distinction. He actually told me that himself, which must’ve been one of the coolest experiences I’ve ever had.
Re: Bells
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:59 am
by Matt Walters
About 25 years ago we did a back and forth swap between a York Monster Eb bell and a Holton Monster Eb bell on a 4/4 CC Frankentuba project. The bottom line "G" was consistently 10 cents flatter using the Holton bell. Same leadpipe, etc. Sound was subjective.
Re: Bells
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:41 am
by Doc
Rick Denney wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:59 pm
I've heard all the arguments about this brass versus that brass when comparing York bells, and I've tried several of those made more recently (such as by Zig Kanstul) that purportedly capture the brass properties used by York. I remain unpersuaded. For one thing, Yorks are old, and their bells have been rolled out, annealed, and rolled out again, sanded, and buffed to I bet no more than half their original thickness. People still rave about them when they play them, and recognize them as something special.
I wish I still had my Kanstul. There certainly was some special mojo in the sound. That tuba had sound properties that I've never had in any other tuba. Is that because of the alloy, the design, or both? I was in favor of coming as close as possible to York in every aspect, including the alloy, and I think they achieved that replication about as much as a company could. My guess is, however, that the bell design and overall design had much more to do with the sound properties than the alloy, but I'm glad they went all the way with it in trying to replicate the alloy (leave no stone unturned). If I ever get this shoulder fixed, I'd own another Kanstul in a heartbeat. Great sound, great valves, excellent workmanship, easy to play, and about as close to a York as I'll get without owning the real thing.
Material does matter (try making a tuba bell out of pudding or jello) but meet a certain basic set of characteristics and you probably have a workable tuba, even if it isn't your super secret samurai sword metallurgy. Though, now i think of it, i wonder what sort of tuba they'd have made...
My Mother made me memorize "The Bells" for some reason. Discipline? Look at me today. Posting on a board filled with tuba goons.
