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donn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:34 pm If comfort is the thing with the helicon, make sure it's one with mouthpipe adjustment bits.

On the other hand, if it hits you in the mouth like it's supposed to, an oval shape (e.g., Cerveny F) is very nice - hangs in position, unlike the circular version.

But if I could have only one, a helicon would be about my last choice. I guess if it had a removable bell, maybe, but I haven't seen many like that.

The Wessex helicons use sousaphone style neck/bits and have removable bells.
The balance, at least of the BBb, is just about perfect. Haven't tried the Eb.

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 pm I would take the time to regain BBb proficiency and own a Miraphone 497, GR51, Eastman 562 or Lidl 715. Whichever came out on top after playtesting.

There is a 497 within knocking distance I can test (not for sale), but when Coronamadness started, trying it was less of an option. It's probably a good thing - I'm afraid of liking it to the point that I sell my 496 and lighten my wallet in the acquisition of one. But that day of testing (reckoning?) will come eventually.

Ooops... typo.... I meant 496... the same size as the others a 4/4+.

A Miraphone 98 for both of my concert bands or the Wessex "Leviathan" for my brass band.

If I could have only one...

...it'd be the incomparable Alex 163 CC that sometimes shows up at rehearsals of one of my regular ensembles.

I don't like CC tubas, but I'd gladly adapt to CC if I could score that particular horn. But, I'll likely never have the chance.

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 pm I would take the time to regain BBb proficiency and own a Miraphone 497, GR51, Eastman 562 or Lidl 715. Whichever came out on top after playtesting.

I'd love to see a video comparing these models. There is a video in Japanese comparing the Eastman, Lidl and a GR-55. But, it's in Japanese so I have no idea what they are saying. They seem most excited about the Eastman... but that's a total guess on my part. However you slice it, I love this design.

I love my Eastman 623, I think it's a copy of a Miraphone 91. Of all the Bb tubas I tested looking for one, the 623 was the best.

I have my Bessophone. It took years to get the combination of everything together after much experimentation with different tubas, combinations, tailorings, changing out bells, mouthpieces, etc. I am a community band player, with occasional other gigs. This is it. Everything else brass are toys to play with on occasion.
Pix here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=147&p=2016

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:16 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 pm I would take the time to regain BBb proficiency and own a Miraphone 497, GR51, Eastman 562 or Lidl 715. Whichever came out on top after playtesting.

There is a 497 within knocking distance I can test (not for sale), but when Coronamadness started, trying it was less of an option. It's probably a good thing - I'm afraid of liking it to the point that I sell my 496 and lighten my wallet in the acquisition of one. But that day of testing (reckoning?) will come eventually.

Ooops... typo.... I meant 496... the same size as the others a 4/4+.

I figured, but I wasn't going to worry over it. The 495, while it didn't necessarily ring my bell, is a very nice tuba and is solidly 4/4. The 496 is definitely a big boy, and the Eastman is not far behind. The 562 has a smaller bore than the 496, maybe slightly smaller bottom and upper bows, but it can hold its own with no problem. It is considerably larger than a 186 BBb, and it is a real player. Singing tone, solid low range, great intonation. The 496 was the only way for me to do better. (Or maybe a Fafner, 497, or Siegfried.) I've never tried the Lidl, but IMHO you have a pretty outstanding list to work from.

I forget the exact details, but isn't the Lidl basically just a Cerveny (Lidl took over and rebranded Cerveny or something... right...?)

I didn't even know the 715 existed until I happened across this...

[youtube] https://youtu.be/Q1S63UVjDKE /[youtube]]

You can fast forward to about the 44 second mark. Unless you speak Japanese.

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:16 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

cktuba wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 pm I would take the time to regain BBb proficiency and own a Miraphone 497, GR51, Eastman 562 or Lidl 715. Whichever came out on top after playtesting.

There is a 497 within knocking distance I can test (not for sale), but when Coronamadness started, trying it was less of an option. It's probably a good thing - I'm afraid of liking it to the point that I sell my 496 and lighten my wallet in the acquisition of one. But that day of testing (reckoning?) will come eventually.

Ooops... typo.... I meant 496... the same size as the others a 4/4+.

I did that comparison minus the Lidl when I bought my 496, and also had the GR55 in there. The GR55 and the 496 are equivalent sizes (5/4 ish). I also tested the 495, which I thought was a stinker.

I ended up with the Hagen 496, because for me, the intonation was a little easier than the GR55. The sound was very close.

Don

djwpe wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:26 am I did that comparison minus the Lidl when I bought my 496, and also had the GR55 in there. The GR55 and the 496 are equivalent sizes (5/4 ish). I also tested the 495, which I thought was a stinker.

I ended up with the Hagen 496, because for me, the intonation was a little easier than the GR55. The sound was very close.

Don

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve never tried the GR 55, but a big goldbrass 5/4 with a .750 bore would, IMHO, be highly desirable.

I even looked into getting the 496 in goldbrass, but I wasn’t sure it was necessary, and I didn’t want to wait 3-4 months for them to make it. I even inquired about a goldbrass 497, since I was dreaming. If any 497 had been immediately available (particularly a goldbrass version), I think I would have taken the jump. Not like I really need one, but I was working enough to pay for it.

More rambling and dreaming...
If Eastman produces the 5v hand-hammered 562 that @Chris Olka mentioned in his 562 video, that could be a super 5/4 BBb tuba. A goldbrass version (akin to a hand hammered GR 55) might be really be something to behold.

It’s always a risk to make suggestions about learning…Some people might tend to think that you are lecturing them from your high horse.
...so here goes:

I sometimes hear people talking about “not being able to read/play _____ tuba, any more“ or this or that…
Most of the stuff on the radio is crap, whether it is political talk or music.
When I’m in the car for longer periods of time, I play tunes (that I know) in my head…and these days they’re often more complicated than they used to be when I was younger.
I might think through a tune in a common key signature, or I might think it in a more remote key...maybe even something like E-flat minor - if I want to challenge myself more…??
I’ll “sing” a tune In my head - classical, pop, jazz, standard, bossa nova… It doesn’t matter - Pick an instrument that I am playing in my imagination… B-flat trumpet, C trumpet, Some sort of 9 foot baritone instrument in B-flat, F tuba, E-flat tuba, C tuba, or BB-flat tuba, and “play” the tune with my fingers - against the steering wheel – while thinking the tune in my head. Occasionally, I’ll “play“ tunes like that in stupid low ranges, to strengthen my fifth or fifth-and-sixth valve acuity...or my 3+1 compensating low range pattern acuity.
It’s a good type of mental exercise, it passes the time, and it strengthens me.
I actually hadn’t read any sheet music in decades while playing a BB-flat tuba, but brought one to a brass quintet recital, recently, and used it there. It was fine, because of the stuff I do habitually (described above).
It’s better than worrying about stuff, or listening to stupid radio stuff.

I suppose I should chime in, since it was my poll/question in the first place. Though, I don't think I can really add anything substantial to this conversation. My answer is: I just don't freakin' know. Back in high school I had a 4-valve, front action horn that I greatly preferred over the top action horns at the school. I've spent the bulk of my adult life "remembering" that it was a King, but it was purchased new in the early 90s and did not have a removable bell. A private teacher allowed me to use his Meinl Weston for a short time. It was a smaller, rotary valved horn and higher notes that always presented some difficulty were relatively easy to play on that one. That horn kinda spoiled me for a bit.

Honestly, any functioning and not beat-to-hell example of a 1241/2341, or similar, would probably be a more than adequate all-rounder for someone like me.