TubaForum.net

BopEuph wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:52 pm

jerseyeuph wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:37 pm I was thinking about how I might acquire/build a valve section. I assume that a horn in F# with a crook to play in F would be a better bet and the valve set could then take the place of the crook.

@Dan Schultz is your guy. I've thought about acquiring a trumpet valve cluster and trying that, but the receiver in the horn is about the size of a euro shank receiver for a euphonium, which is even smaller than a trumpet bore. So there will be a Bernoulli effect going on if I were to go that route.

Either way, the way I see it, is there's little need for an alphorn player in Florida, and an even smaller need for a valve playing alphorn.

I'm not sure how that would work. Or if it is necessary?

Definitely not necessary. The idea is you plug the valve block into the mouthpiece receiver and then the mouthpiece into the block. You're changing the fundamental pitch of the instrument, and I haven't a clue by how much. I wonder if you can get a valve block small enough to only make it a 1/2 step difference?

I think the trouble of crafting your own is actually matching the bore/taper of the horn.

Here's Arkady Shilkloper demonstrating the Willson valve block. This guy is a serious player, and has some very modern avant garde alphorn playing, but his chops are extremely top notch. Sounds like he's playing in F, so maybe it does only go down a 1/2 step...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dx1_mF6PN8

Also, Dan has posted his progress in making his own on the other forum. I wonder if he still has those pics?

Or maybe I'm misremembering him doing the steps, but he's at least posted about making the valve block.

Oops, double post.

I stumbled upon that video earlier today. Cool.

The pics are still on Dan’s site:

http://thevillagetinker.com/Misc%20stuff.htm
(scroll down a bit)

I’m looking at this as a possible way to play an unmuted low brass instrument without having the bell anywhere near my head. Years of euphonium and tuba playing have done a number on my hearing. I make do with a practice-muted rotary cornet, which is interesting and fun enough. I play alone, so actual key isn’t that critical, just as long as the valved horn is in tune with itself. My muted cornet plays best at A452. I’m the only one who knows it’s not ‘standard.’

Anyway, just thinking out loud at this point. An alphorn is definitely in the works for me. Valves? We’ll see.

You will definitely have to post photos when you get an alphorn, especially if you have a valve section thing going on!

Thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion. The ‘need’ thread got me thinking and I’ve decided to delay this project for now. I have enough info to work with should the ‘need’ arise someday. I’m going to make do with what I already have and that’s a good thing. :)

Cheers and later for now...

I feel you! I got this horn like four years ago, and realized that I haven't had a single gig with it yet.

Now that there's the possibility of more work from the German band at Epcot...I might have given myself a new edge.

Maybe it's changed but while I worked there in the two day trio there were several alphorns to use. I just grabbed one, put in a 61/2 AL, and went to town. The couple of tunes were simple and manageable within about ten minutes. I don't think they expect anyone to supply their own alphorns. Also, the tuba player, Jay Mueller, is playing on a Cerveny opera model commonly known as a "Piggy". And if you don't work any out there in six months you get purged from the system.As a side note, when they gave me the position the resident German Oberkriner(sp?) guy, Edi Hadner gave me the rules for that kind of music. Only 1-5..no inversions.you can play the third if you're going to the five chord. No lines. If we want you to play melody we will tell you what to play. I, personally, LOVE the style Doc plays and left to my own devices would go more in that direction, not as well as Doc however, but those were the rules. Now Jay has been there for quite awhile. They called me when his predecessor, Big George passed away during a show but I had other plans. But Jay may have gotten the rules relaxed a bit as he's a Great tuba and bass player.We played together in the World Band and the Tuba Quartet and I'm sure they love having him there. And...That band has been there since 81 or 82' so it's kind of a rarity. They actually searched all over Germany in the beginning because they wanted an authentic German band but there were no takers. The players over there mostly had day jobs and the music jobs paid rediculously high so playing in the Florida heat with a two week notice didn't appeal to anyone. They finally went to the Stratton Mountain lodge in the US where the German ski instructors were a band in the evening. Only one was interested, Edi Hadner. And he's still there. The original band was six pieces with 3 beautiful frauline dancers. Sorry for the long post but I thought some might find it interesting. Ed

Hi Ed, long time! Thanks for all the awesome information!

Yeah, I basically bought the alphorn a few years ago when I wanted to source my own instruments without having to have a whole lot of virtual instruments that get obsolete every five years...so basically for my own home studio ideas. I actually got the idea after playing a Game of Thrones concert and hearing how Pedro Eustache took so many folk-style instruments and did some beautiful work with them. I figured any brass style instrument would be a good start, so found that horn. It just so happened that it gave me a great chance to get a leg up on the competition if they ever needed more subs. And practicing the horn is really pumping up my lip flexibility in general.

I figured there were rules there about how to play the lines, so it makes sense as to why he's playing more simply than Doc...Jay is a phenomenal musician on both instruments, and when I had gigs there I'd always love to swing by and talk shop with him. He's steered me in the right direction so many times when I was making the switch from euph to tuba. From what I understand it, though, Todd retired last year, so there's speculation of an audition coming up whenever it's safe. Not expecting to be the replacement, but it'd be nice to be back on that sub list. And I'd probably bring my own alphorn to the potential audition to hopefully give me an edge--besides, I'm spending time on the horn, might as well show where I'm at on it. And yep, I was one of the hundreds of musicians purged, but I was getting a lot of the casual bass stuff around the whole property, so I'm kinda hoping that phone will ring again when this is all over.

I'd love to sit with Edi and talk those rules, but I think I still have to "prove" myself with my improvement before he'd read me the act. This is actually making me rethink how I'd play the audition though...I had been listening to some great bands with some flashier tuba/baritone players, and was thinking about copping the kind of fills on those recordings. Sounds like fills is a bad idea.

I always heard the story that they looked in the Midwest for a tuba when George passed. I didn't know they went all the way to Germany!

Yeah, Marty always said if he could get the clarinet player back, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

By the way, last we talked I was looking for a 5J/2341 style horn. I ended up getting a 5/4 BBb Kanstul for an amazing price. But that 12J is still an awesome horn to have around. I'm currently alternating each horn weekly in my daily practice regimen.

Hope you're doing well!

Nick

Also, @edfirth, did his Conn die, or did he retire it to keep it safe in its old age?

Nick, J's 2J was actually overhauled fairly recently. I used to play on it when Dave Gannett owned it while we were in New Orleans in the late 70's. Dave gifted it to Jay and Jay told me he was switching to that Piggy because it was lighter. He and I both have back problems that may be from schlepping tubas up and down Main Street and the tunnel for 20+ years. At least Jay was smart enough to use that 2J...I played on a 34Jwhich is a 24J with normal valves. Ouch! Also, I heard last week that they had given that job to Bob Tucker which makes sense since Bob has been the sub out there almost since Jay came in. Keep going, you'll outlast this pandemic thing. Ed

Oh wow, I know that he was worried that parts were getting harder to find. It's cool you guys are keeping in touch with each other--I'm just in massive practice mode until the gigs come back.

I think the back thing is a tall guy issue, too...something I'm sure I have to look forward to! Funny thing, my back hurts more if I try to play the 12J WITH a strap rather than hold it with my left hand. But the extra work also makes it harder to get down in the low register, too. Maybe I should practice while standing next week and see if my recent practicing has mitigated that.

Yeah, I know Bob is still subbing out there, but what I've been hearing is they've been looking for a mostly bass player so he can sing, too...but maybe they decided to compromise on that.

Thanks, and I can't wait to get back to full time gigging!

Interesting comments!

Yes... the images of my chromatic Alphorn are still on my website here: http://thevillagetinker.com/Misc%20stuff.htm

My Alphorn was built in two sections and in the pitch of Gb. There originally was a short section that plugged in between the two sections to lower the pitch to F. The F horn valve section is the same length as that short section. With the valve section it's basically an F tuba. Playing the horn in an ensemble is definitely a hoot since the sound is so far away! I don't think the horn is very practical but it's sure fun to fool around with!

So, on a lark today, I recorded this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4BC5T31fU[/youtube]

Edit: @ParLawGod , why isn't the embed not properly working? Did I do something wrong?

Dan Schultz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:39 pm Interesting comments!

Yes... the images of my chromatic Alphorn are still on my website here: http://thevillagetinker.com/Misc%20stuff.htm

My Alphorn was built in two sections and in the pitch of Gb. There originally was a short section that plugged in between the two sections to lower the pitch to F. The F horn valve section is the same length as that short section. With the valve section it's basically an F tuba. Playing the horn in an ensemble is definitely a hoot since the sound is so far away! I don't think the horn is very practical but it's sure fun to fool around with!

You know, I go back and forth about having a valve cluster made for my horn. I am currently thinking about some kind of Christmas solo act to sell to the local theme parks, and while a natural alphorn would suck to try to play Christmas carols on, a valved one could easily get through a night doing that!

So...is having a valve section made worth it? I'd probably want it in E-flat, since the horn is in F. And I'm guessing I'd still want a French/tenor/alto horn cluster, since a trumpet would be too small, yes?