I find it – not ironic but – revealing that the definition of a “research“ paper is not to do original research and to enlighten others as to new findings, but to quote others and post footnotes referring to their quotes...
(very reminiscent of the Galileo-era Catholic Church, and its “findings“).
...and Wade:
We also know that they vote, and even millions more of them than vote, vote.
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 10:23 pm
by Yorkboy
Three Valves wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:55 pm
@the elephant Play darts??
My HS buddy, who your rants often remind me of, recently sent me the link to the 80s classic; Tom Goes to the Bar (Short Subject)
That bar looks familiar to me (a place I used to go to many years ago off of Tompkins Square Park) but I’m assuming it must be in Boston because of the Ted Williams picture......
That bar looks familiar to me (a place I used to go to many years ago off of Tompkins Square Park) but I’m assuming it must be in Boston because of the Ted Williams picture......
I guess the darts hit him by accident so yes.
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:17 am
by bloke
People who are not adept at sitting down and making their own music - and who must follow the instructions on a piece of paper (often without very much musical expression…I e.. “paint by number“ music) tend to express the types of rigid attitudes that are described in this thread.
Every performance of a piece of music is a de facto “arrangement“, because it’s very easy to identify the fact that one player’s performance is not the next player’s performance.
Here’s a specific pet peeve that always makes me chuckle: those people who are picky about the Star-Spangled Banner… It’s an old drinking song. Someone harmonized it. Someone else harmonized it. Someone else harmonized it. A whole bunch of other people harmonized it. If an arrangement varies more than 10% from what not-particularly-well-trained (yet self-described as discriminating) ears are accustomed to hearing, the owners of those ears complain… Yet (in reality) they actually except quite a few different arrangements, as long as they all sound roughly like they expect the song to sound. ... Yet they claim that there is “AN arrangement“ that should be adhered to...as if altering a chord or note in the harmony of this old drinking song is subversive.
(Just fwiw, back in the 1970s, our 200 pc. college marching band (laden with several scream trumpet players, as the music school actually was able to support five jazz big bands) played this Curnow/Kenton-band arrangement at pregame, every week.)
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:16 am
by jtm
Now who could possibly complain about that?
I have stronger feelings about America the Beautiful: Carmen Dragon did the best arrangement.
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:27 am
by jtm
the elephant wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:30 pm
Well, MY research and MY guesswork is just as valid, and they tell me that JS Bach would be tickled to death to know that hundreds of years after he ginned out his products for his patrons that SO MANY HUMANS actually know who he was, love his music, and strive to understand how he would have liked us to render it. I also surmise that he would be happy to hear his music interpreted in thousands of different ways, with ideas and creativity leading what he wrote to all sorts of different performances, to include — but by no means be limited to — how he envisioned them sounding.
I have to believe that's the right attitude. I grew up with Switched-On Bach and with teachers who insisted that Bach wrote for the instruments that were available (and for PATRONS, as you point out), so we were just going to play on whatever instruments WE had at hand. Two part inventions are at least fun, if not authentic, for violin and euphonium.
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 3:05 pm
by Heavy_Metal
Thanks for sharing that- I hadn't heard the Curnow-Kenton arrangement in decades.
bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:17 am
People who are not adept at sitting down and making their own music - and who must follow the instructions on a piece of paper (often without very much musical expression…I e.. “paint by number“ music) tend to express the types of rigid attitudes that are described in this thread.
Every performance of a piece of music is a de facto “arrangement“, because it’s very easy to identify the fact that one player’s performance is not the next player’s performance.
Here’s a specific pet peeve that always makes me chuckle: those people who are picky about the Star-Spangled Banner… It’s an old drinking song. Someone harmonized it. Someone else harmonized it. Someone else harmonized it. A whole bunch of other people harmonized it. If an arrangement varies more than 10% from what not-particularly-well-trained (yet self-described as discriminating) ears are accustomed to hearing, the owners of those ears complain… Yet (in reality) they actually except quite a few different arrangements, as long as they all sound roughly like they expect the song to sound. ... Yet they claim that there is “AN arrangement“ that should be adhered to...as if altering a chord or note in the harmony of this old drinking song is subversive.
(Just fwiw, back in the 1970s, our 200 pc. college marching band (laden with several scream trumpet players, as the music school actually was able to support five jazz big bands) played this Curnow/Kenton-band arrangement at pregame, every week.)
the elephant wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 11:40 am
...it seems to me that Music is the hiding place for more frauds than any other field.
Again, change my mind.
Higher education.
And you may call me Maestro!!
Particularly the Ph.Ds in education who have never taught anything lower than college trying to tell innercity school teacher how they should really be teaching... Benn there, done that.
Re: Musicality and reality
Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:52 am
by Doc
iiipopes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:14 am
It's no different an argument than a cover band playing pop/rock songs with different instrumentation. For example, a regional band, the Hillbenders, a bluegrass band, friends of mine, completely re-did the Who's Tommy album as a bluegrass album, to great critical success, including getting to meet Pete Townsend (who you may recall, is also a banjo player - listen to "Squeezebox.) Here's the video to their rendition of "Pinball Wizard."
It is good to study the music in its original context and instrumentation, but then go make music with the music.
These guys are pretty gosh-darned-not-too-bad... Metallica digs it enough that they will use Iron Horse's recording during sound check and as part of the house music before a show.
Their version of Rocket Man is pretty cool, too. Check out their tunes.
