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MN_TimTuba wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:59 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:53 pm
The 191, while not as kaiser-ish, has a killer low range.

Brett,
Yes. If you travel N, be sure to stop and play mine. The granny low range is THERE.
Good luck!
Tim

After trading from a 2015 to a 2018 CR-V in 2018 I was disappointed to see how the 'trunk' space had changed so that I couldn't wheel into it my Rudy-Meinl Bayreuth, a true BAT. Reluctantly, I switched to carrying my 5 valve gold brass 191 to do all of my playing away from home.

I can attest that while the presence of the 4 valve Bayreuth isn't quite there with the 191, the low range with the 5th valve is phenomenal, chromatic down to BBBb. It sure beats the 'privileged' or 'false' tones down there on the Bayreuth. Either way, though, you have to hear 'em to hit 'em.

Brett,
You need to become a dealer, because your buying price range is about the same as mine (the bottom-fishing range), except I don’t come across those types of prices every day (nor a thousand or two thousand dollars more - particularly with the price of most other things having doubled - at least: gasoline, food, and houses).

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:26 pm Brett,
You need to become a dealer, because your buying price range is about the same as mine (the bottom-fishing range), except I don’t come across those types of prices every day (nor a thousand or two thousand dollars more - particularly with the price of most other things having doubled - at least: gasoline, food, and houses).

I would be a lousy dealer. After 15-20 years of this, I'd say that I have neatly broke even on all of my dealings. Which is great as a regular guy, but terrible as a dealer. :)

Still really like that 190, Joe. Just gotta do my homework as well to see what else is out there. Seems as if my allergy to all things not rotary and CC might be lifting after all. But maybe the CC allergy lifting more than the piston allergy. :P

Even before the two intonation remedies that are built in my head, I know we need to be realized in the 3-D world, I’m getting the hang of that thing, and enjoying the “Meinl-Weston-25-on-steroids“ type of resonance that it offers - particularly as it offers it without me having to do very much work at.
Tchaik IV is coming up at the end of this next season, and I am fantasizing about using it on that piece - as I’ve played it on a *different tuba every time I’ve played it...but this time could (??) be the first time on something that’s probably the closest to the “right“ thing…
...but - if I sell it, that obviously won’t happen.
I have other cannons sitting around here that can blow holes in orchestras...
—————-
*The last two times have been
- on a hybrid 6/4 Meinl-Weston that was basically 6450 with a original edition (tone ring on board) 2165 bell, and the most recent time was with a Rudolph Meinl 5/4 C. Both of those made a lot of racket.

...

I’m not sure if that projection is possible without presence.
To me, “presence” = immediacy.
Without immediacy, projection is nearly possible, because - if the tuba sound is not in the front of the sound, it is not noticed.

Forget I mentioned the whole presence thing... Don't want to muddy the water too much.

Let's just say, I'd like to keep some focus to the sound. Im liking the idea of the 2341, and may have a lead on a local and very nice example.

Any sound clips/videos of the new 2341 out there? A quick YouTube search was unfulfilling.

The GR-55 is a dream, but I'm not quite sure buying from abroad is realistic right now. Above budget too. But dang, you don't see those much in the US!

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:14 pm

Any sound clips/videos of the new 2341 out there? A quick YouTube search was unfulfilling.

Brett,
Not identical but similar, search Dr. Deanna Swoboda, Arizona State. Very talented, plays the Eastman version (might be the CC, though, I forget) . I heard her in person at the MN Tuba Workshop a couple of years ago and spoke with her about coming north as a guest artist - then covid hit. Anyhow, she's a good visit and the real deal.
Tim

Certainly not in your budget, but a MW 195P is by far the best large piston valve BBb tuba that I have ever played. Both the 4 and 5 valve models are incredible. Great intonation, very responsive, very nimble, and easy to play pianissimo or fortissimo.

The King 2341 is a solid tuba. I used a new style one for several years in various Army Bands. It's a great all purpose BBb tuba. However, the MW195P is just as easy to play, if not easier to play, in nearly every playing situation, to include brass quintet.

Meinl Weston hit a home run with the 195P.

I have an Eastman 534 - their version of the modern 2341. It is a great horn. And it is for sale!

Of my two big BBbs, the one with the richly, powerfully dark tone is a Holton. Old model 109, which is not what you want, but I reckon there's bound to be considerable similarity with other big Holtons of more recent vintage. I imagine that if you find a good BBb Holton 345, as long as you can lift it, you will never want for that big tuba sound.

Can’t go wrong with made in the USA.

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:05 pm Can’t go wrong with made in the USA

A104AD95-4489-495A-B372-D372276E9955.jpeg

Those are incredible!

@Yorkboy PLEASE tell me about those, L to R...! :)

greenbean wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:30 pm I have an Eastman 534 - their version of the modern 2341. It is a great horn. And it is for sale!

With that cool UPS bag??

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:07 pm

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:05 pm Can’t go wrong with made in the USA

A104AD95-4489-495A-B372-D372276E9955.jpeg

Those are incredible!

@Yorkboy PLEASE tell me about those, L to R...! :)

Dang, where'd they go!

I really wish that something like Lenny Jung's old Martin BBb still existed.

https://simonettitubacollection.com/ins ... -piston-2/


I had the privilege to play alongside Lenny in a community band in Maryland back when I was 17 or 18 years old. An exceptionally fine tuba player, and an extremely nice man. He must have been about 80 years old then...

I didn't know until just now when he passed, or that he had passed at all (although when I started to do the math, the probability got pretty low). Wow, age 97. You can't live forever, but he sure gave it a run! Also didn't know that he was a Minnesotan, so that explains the "nice". :)

https://www.beallfuneral.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1886953

Three Valves wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:13 am
With that cool UPS bag??

It could come with the Eastman hard case, the UPS bag, or... both!

The UPS Guy still honks every time he drives by me and the bag!

Hey Brett, I don't remember if you had one of these before but the bigger piston valve Marzans sport a .750 bore(like Jake's York) and are decendants of the old York Master models which were based on Yorks. I had a 4+1 Bb and it rocked. Dan Schultz seems to have them pass through his shop from time to time and he probably knows the whereabouts of alot of them. Also, regarding King 2341's, I've played quite a few and the variances in playability and sound aren't huge but some are definitely better than others. Matt @ Dillon's picked me out a real winner 20 years ago and it remained my main/ favorite axe to the end. Good luck with your search. Ed

I had forgotten about the Marzans. Dan Schultz has one for sale now.

I forgot about the Marzan tubas... Which is funny because I used to own one in CC.

It's a good looking one with pistons came around (in either key), and with a one piece bell, I think I would definitely be interested in it. No more detachable bells though.