TubaForum.net

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:41 am

Casca Grossa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:35 pm According to some college professors:

You need a CC tuba to join the studio because it will increase your professional opportunities in the future.

It's amazing to me that some teachers will not accept you into their studio unless you play CC. We have one highly revered teacher in our state who has such a mandate. I'm not sure of the supposed "logic" behind that mandate. I guess the "if you only want to play in an American orchestra with an American sound and follow American academic tradition" idea is justification...?

Without mentioning names, this was briefly discussed on the other tuba site and either the thought police or the college professor I am referring to with my comment had the topic removed. I had seen a post elsewhere on social media where a prospective student of a certain large university was quite alarmed at the fact that they had auditioned and gotten into said professor's studio and was told to buy a CC. I believe the student wanted to be a music ed major and had just purchased a very nice and pricey BBb that they had intended to use for life, if memory serves me correctly. It really shouldn't matter if they buy a tuba in BBb, CC, Eb, F, D, G, etc. If they can play the hell out of it and they are in tune and play in time. It may limit certain job opportunities, but if that student has no desire to get one of those jobs, why does it matter?

I don't know about the rest of you, but the older I get the harder time I have teaching a student and especially playing difficult music for a student that is playing a different keyed instrument than I have in my lap. I don't know if that makes any sense or not but what happens to me is while I'm playing I typically think about the fingerings they need to use to get through a difficult section and that screws me up and makes me look like an idiot while I'm playing

That's why a few years ago I bought a BBb tuba just to teach with

Casca Grossa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:27 am

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:41 am

Casca Grossa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:35 pm According to some college professors:

You need a CC tuba to join the studio because it will increase your professional opportunities in the future.

It's amazing to me that some teachers will not accept you into their studio unless you play CC. We have one highly revered teacher in our state who has such a mandate. I'm not sure of the supposed "logic" behind that mandate. I guess the "if you only want to play in an American orchestra with an American sound and follow American academic tradition" idea is justification...?

Without mentioning names, this was briefly discussed on the other tuba site and either the thought police or the college professor I am referring to with my comment had the topic removed. I had seen a post elsewhere on social media where a prospective student of a certain large university was quite alarmed at the fact that they had auditioned and gotten into said professor's studio and was told to buy a CC. I believe the student wanted to be a music ed major and had just purchased a very nice and pricey BBb that they had intended to use for life, if memory serves me correctly. It really shouldn't matter if they buy a tuba in BBb, CC, Eb, F, D, G, etc. If they can play the hell out of it and they are in tune and play in time. It may limit certain job opportunities, but if that student has no desire to get one of those jobs, why does it matter?

Exactly.

I seem to recall a discussion like that, but it's been a while. So if the kid gets rejected from the studio based on the key of his tuba, does he study with a TA? And if not, is he barred from entry into the university since he doesn't meet one person's non-essential arbitrary requirements?

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:32 am I don't know about the rest of you, but the older I get the harder time I have teaching a student and especially playing difficult music for a student that is playing a different keyed instrument than I have in my lap. I don't know if that makes any sense or not but what happens to me is while I'm playing I typically think about the fingerings they need to use to get through a difficult section and that screws me up and makes me look like an idiot while I'm playing

That's why a few years ago I bought a BBb tuba just to teach with

I think we all have our preferences when it comes to that. I stopped teaching private lessons long ago but I was also an Air Force bandsman at the time. I had to switch between BBb, CC, and F usually multiple times a day and sometimes the same tunes, just on different keyed instruments. Although I almost exclusively play CC now, I can pick up a BBb and not really have to think about it and it's been 20 years since I haplayed BBb on a regular basis. Our brains all function differently. We just have to do what is comfortable for our own individual needs.

That being said, I don't think a college professor should have an issue teaching different keyed instruments form one student to the next. They may not have played BBb in many years, but most of their students will more than likely end up teaching school band with students who play exclusively on BBb. If they continue to perform while they teach (graduates of the college tuba studio), they will most likely end up in a community band with other BBb players. I just don't see why the need to force a student into purchasing a CC.

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:32 am I don't know about the rest of you, but the older I get the harder time I have teaching a student and especially playing difficult music for a student that is playing a different keyed instrument than I have in my lap. I don't know if that makes any sense or not but what happens to me is while I'm playing I typically think about the fingerings they need to use to get through a difficult section and that screws me up and makes me look like an idiot while I'm playing

That's why a few years ago I bought a BBb tuba just to teach with

Back when I was teaching quite a few students, I would run through all of my scales fingering C on the tuba with my right hand while the left would be performing the Bb pattern. That wasn’t easy to get down for a few days but it came along nonetheless. Then I expanded that to doing the same with basic etudes and exercises.

That helped a good bit with the kids on Bb while I was on C. And if I knew they were peeking at my hand while playing together, I could put my left hand in their line of sight and help out if needed.

I can play BBb, CC, and Eb interchangeably, the problem with my brain is I have a hard time demonstrating on one instrument for a student who's playing in a different key horn than I am. I'm thinking about their fingerings and what it takes for them to play instead of me and I make dumb mistakes. Didn't used to be a problem, it is now

Casca Grossa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:47 am That being said, I don't think a college professor should have an issue teaching different keyed instruments form one student to the next. They may not have played BBb in many years, but most of their students will more than likely end up teaching school band with students who play exclusively on BBb. If they continue to perform while they teach (graduates of the college tuba studio), they will most likely end up in a community band with other BBb players. I just don't see why the need to force a student into purchasing a CC.

I’d agree with this notion. Chances of becoming a professional athlete are better than becoming a professional tuba player given equivalent amount of practice and training. I don’t know what the stats are, but tuba major vs tuba professional is a skewed ratio for sure.

Using modern “lingo”, the notion of switching students to C when they might have a perfectly good Bb comes across as “gatekeeping” as much as anything else. There’s viability in teaching students bass tuba literature as well and Eb/F doesn’t really matter there either.

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:32 am I don't know about the rest of you, but the older I get the harder time I have teaching a student and especially playing difficult music for a student that is playing a different keyed instrument than I have in my lap. I don't know if that makes any sense or not but what happens to me is while I'm playing I typically think about the fingerings they need to use to get through a difficult section and that screws me up and makes me look like an idiot while I'm playing

That's why a few years ago I bought a BBb tuba just to teach with

I can understand that to a point, especially with school-aged students. I taught for years with CC, but when I teach the occasional lesson now, it's on BBb.

Add to that the fact that we ain't gettin' any younger...

I can play BBb, CC, and Eb interchangeably, the problem with my brain is I have a hard time demonstrating on one instrument for a student who's playing in a different key horn than I am. I'm thinking about their fingerings and what it takes for them to play instead of me and I make dumb mistakes. Didn't used to be a problem, it is now

...and BBb becomes an easy button with school kids.

Where I take exception to that idea is if you are an esteemed, highly regarded, big-time perfeshnul perfesser (having been trained trained by one of the greatest pedgogues), you are at a notable music school, and you are teaching university students who have to be well beyond "correct fingerings" just to make the cut. Wouldn't the teacher would want to focus on higher-order concepts and intense study of music and musicianship? Why even accept education majors into the studio just to force them into purchasing a CC for which they have absolutely ZERO need? Does the teacher think the training provided is such that the student should feel so obliged that they should automatically spend an additional $5K-10K-15K+ just for the privilege? As if education isn't already expensive enough? Why not just take the orchestra-track-only students who have already purchased their 6/4 CC BAT so as to enter the studio already conforming to current trends?

- Informing the students about the common (and often expected) tools of the trade the seek to enter and encouraging them to acquire those tools when possible to make study (and subsequent auditions) easier: No problem.

- Telling students they are barred entrance for study because their equipment is in the wrong key: Big problem.

matt g wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:05 pm Using modern “lingo”, the notion of switching students to C when they might have a perfectly good Bb comes across as “gatekeeping” as much as anything else.

Buzzword du jour or not, you can still preach it, son!

And while you're on the pulpit...

There’s viability in teaching students bass tuba literature as well and Eb/F doesn’t really matter there either.

Amen!

I've not the patience for teaching (barely for repairing poorly-made instruments), but - were it that I taught - I believe (yes, agreed!) I would pick up a tuba that is the same length (perhaps size as well) as the one being used by a particular student.