Thank you for this post! It states what many of us know.pjv wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:09 am For fun I googled what’s the difference between valve oil and lamp oil and found this old post in the Trumpet Harold
Have fun:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:54 pm
First no one that sells valve oil manufactures the base stock or petro-distillates themselves they buy existing raw ingredients like liquid paraffin or kerosene or JP8 etc.....You would have to be naive as a 19 year old to think other wise. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to refine crude into base stocks or to manufacture a synthetic from ethylene gas or any other gas for that matter....?
I buy base stocks on the open market and I buy Ornite additive systems from a refinery to blend some of my own products. Even companies like Castrol do not refine their own base stocks they buy on the market from SOPUS,EM and other's. Some bottlers build their own additive packages but most purchase those from large refineries too. Why? Testing the large companies like SOPUS and EM pay the expensive testing fee's for their additive packages. This means you can buy a base stock from anyone and if you use a tested,certified, additive package you can include all those cet's on your label as long as you pay for the right. You get to skip the expensive testing of your product though.
I also think it is naive to think that more then informal testing is done on valve oils. First their is no standards for them to meet. When was the last time any company selling valve oil paid a claim out to anyone for damage caused as a result of unseeing their product? How would you a trumpet player even prove such a case when their is no standard for corrosion, viscosity, shearing, extreme pressure, oxidation resistance????
Keep in mind I have been an Expert Witness I know I hate the term too for General Motor's legal staff.....I never had to show up in court but my reports where often used by the legal staff. They would often call me up and ask me all kinds of questions before heading into a meeting to strike a deal.
Copper is a yellow metal nickel silver and monel are made with copper so anything that is safe for yellow metal is safe for a trumpet.
Ultra Pure lamp oil is refined to the point that it does not produces any smudging or visible black soot when burned in an oil lamp. It is safe to use in homes for lighting and heating. It has been used as a light source long before crude was being refined. UltraPure is more refined then Medallion is which is why people use UltraPure it is better refined. The main difference between jet fuel and kerosene is the filtration. Long before additives where applied to aviation jet fuel filtration and purity was applied.
I would add that none of you has any clue right this minute if their are any impurities in your valve oil because none of you have any clue what is even in it to start with.
Human contact with raw brass is bad for the brass so even your own skin and breath are not good for the brass.
How many mircrons of filtration is needed? I could put valve oil through a Whatmann .2uf filter which exceeds the purity required for water or for injectable medications. .45 microns is generally considered sterile. That would not guarantee much of anything since their could still be chemicals in the end product not good for valves. I could filter acid to that level but the acid would still not be good.
So how is someone going to make an informed decision. Well I can tell you this much. Ultrapure Lamp oil and Kerosene where used before store bought valve oil became the in thing! Lamp oil cut with ATF is safe because ATF is tested against yellow metals. Not wishful thinking but scientific fact. Why? Because they use yellow metals, carbon fiber, plastic, aluminum,stainless steel,iron,paper,ruber and almost everything else including Silver in transmission that use ATF. Same thing can be said for any high end hydraulic fluid. I do not assume anything when it comes to oils let alone valve oils for trumpets.
When was the last time any of you say any scientific testing from any of the big name valve oils you buy?
Ignorance is bliss is not a very true statement and making decisions based on fear not fact is like wise not a good thing. It means you are making a lot of assumptions like the idea that some how "Branded Valve Oils" have some how been tested for wear reduction and safety in a manner that is in line with the scientific method! LOL
The other day I used 3in1 cut with lamp oil. Why? Wanted to change things up for no other reason then that. I am useing 20% 3in1 to 80% UltraPure both purchased from my local Ace Hardware Store.
So 3.2 onces of 3in1 mixed with 12.8 onces of UltraPure will give me 16 onces of valve oil. I paid $4.99 or $5.99 for 32 onces of Ultra Pure and $3.49 for 4 onces of 3in1. I have lamp oil left over to make more should I want to or need too. I can also use the remaining lamp oil to fill my oil lamps which come in handy when the power goes out. The remainder of the 3in1 can be used around the house, on firearms, you name it. So for less then $10 I have 16 ounces of valve oil and plenty of raw ingredients left over. Had I spent that $10 on valve oil I would not have anything left over for other applications and I doubt I would have gotten much better then I what I made.
10%-30% of either the ATF or 3in1 is what I tend to use. I can adjust it for any horns amount of valve wear.
Same thing goes for the lanolin Valvoline home brew slide grease. You could fear that the sky is falling and that it will some how damage your horn but you would be wrong
Even so, people will continue clinging to their expensive “my name brand exception-to-the-rules/it’s somehow better/” valve oil and will keep pissing away their hard-earned money. Hey… it’s their money. If science, common sense, and low cost doesn’t convince them, it ain’t my problem.
If you have an allergy to petroleum distillates, no brand name valve oil is safe (which would totally suck!). If brand name valve oils have other additives, that presents additional potential problems. And it costs a lot more than lamp oil. Paying more than necessary for something that already hurts you... that’s literally adding insult to injury.KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:02 am Unfortunately, some people with chemical/petroleum allergies or intolerances don't have to 'smell' something for it to make them react to it.
Give me the straight stuff in bulk. It’s cheaper and as clean/pure as it’s going to get.
Doc (who grew up buying white gas at the local bulk plant and adding cinnamon oil for valve oil)
