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bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:14 pm

York-aholic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:54 pm Have you emailed Miraphone and see if they have any idea what happened here?

I did... End of day on Friday, so they surely won't see it until Monday at the earliest. With August vacations, who knows.

There is no serial number anywhere on the horn that I can see. Just the "shop number" of 86, which is stamped on all of the valve section parts.

Besides the bell engraving, receiver, and paddle bar, is there anywhere else I can check for a serial number? I haven't seen a Miraphone without a serial number before, but I'm sure it's not that uncommon.

Curious if Miraphone had anything to say?

cjk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:39 pm Curious if Miraphone had anything to say?

Not yet. I'm guessing they are on vacation.

I asked Bob Tucci, he had no idea why it was made this way.

I asked Louis Klein, he seemed to think this is a prototype of an F tuba from the 60s or 70s, unrelated to the 181 altogether. He guessed that the fifth valve slide was a later modification, given how one-off and hand-bent it is. I don't agree with that though -- all the ferrules and solder joints look Miraphone original, and the lacquer hasn't been worked on, it's all as it left the factory.

Another player who asked not to be named suggested just that someone with the money wanted this tuba built this way, so they made a one-off configuration like this.

There is also a Miraphone 180 at Brass Ark which looks very much like this, except the fifth slide is differently strange. I've emailed Noah about it, but no reply yet.

Mine isn't exactly a 180 either... Vertical tubing slide and larger bore valve set. Could be where the bell came from, though. Side note, you can see the hand-hammering marks all over the bottom bow, that's always neat.

Mystery not solved yet, but if none of these people or you all know... We may never know.

Is the bore graduated or is it consistent through the valves?

Can you measure the 4th and 5th valves?

What's the bell diameter?

The music store name engraved on the bell might be the one who modified it rather than being the one who special ordered it.

I'm sure somebody can point out an exception, but the ferrules on factory Miraphone tubas usually match in length and ornamentation. The two ferrules right out of the fifth valve obviously do not match in length.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:14 pm

York-aholic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:54 pm Have you emailed Miraphone and see if they have any idea what happened here?

...
Besides the bell engraving, receiver, and paddle bar, is there anywhere else I can check for a serial number? I haven't seen a Miraphone without a serial number before, but I'm sure it's not that uncommon.

check the player side of the bell near the brace which attaches the bell to the body. I once had a tuba which had its serial number there, but it sounds like you checked all the usual places.

Bell diameter is 390 mm (about 15.3").

I'll have to measure the bore of the other valves, I didn't think to do that yet. Probably later tonight.

Interesting theory about the engraving -- I'll have to check that out and see if it looks like it was lacquered first and then engraved, or engraved and then lacquered. I can't over-emphasize how clean this tuba is, a few super tiny pings and maybe 2% lacquer wear. No evidence of repairs, scorched lacquer, touch-ups, etc. It honestly looks factory fresh. Can't explain the ferrules.

This is the 180 that Noah has on his website:

The Miraphone 180 F tuba has a sideways pull main tuning slide like a 186. The brass ark tuba doesn’t.

That brassark tuba looks really similar to yours. I would say it’s not a 180, but don’t have the foggiest what it or yours actually is.

cjk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:32 pm The Miraphone 180 F tuba has a sideways pull main tuning slide like a 186. The brass ark tuba doesn’t.

That brassark tuba looks really similar to yours. I would say it’s not a 180, but don’t have the foggiest what it or yours actually is.

Thanks... And yes, the main slide direction is a "tell" that it's not a 180.

I found an old (70s?) catalog page for the 180. The listed specs are all smaller than mine:
.681 bore
14" bell
35 1/2" tall

An early 90s catalog lists the 180 slightly different but still smaller than mine in all dimensions.
.700 bore
14.96" bell
34.25" tall

I checked... Consistent bore of 19.5 mm (about . 768)

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:52 am I checked... Consistent bore of 19.5 mm (about . 768)

Guess: it came after the 180 and before the B&S copy 181. Older S linkage, bigger straight through "186" bore, bigger instrument, but slightly smaller bell than the standard-ish 16.5 inches. Every Miraphone rotor F tuba including and after the B&S copy 181 has had a graduated bore. Seems old-ish.

After being very interested in tubas for 35 years, it's neat to encounter a model that one has never seen before.

Your tuba has a double braced main tuning slide on the valve slide while the Brass Ark tuba does not. just odd.

cjk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:04 am

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:52 am I checked... Consistent bore of 19.5 mm (about . 768)

Guess: it came after the 180 and before the B&S copy 181. Older S linkage, bigger straight through "186" bore, bigger instrument, but slightly smaller bell than the standard-ish 16.5 inches. Every Miraphone rotor F tuba including and after the B&S copy 181 has had a graduated bore. Seems old-ish.

After being very interested in tubas for 35 years, it's neat to encounter a model that one has never seen before.

Your tuba has a double braced main tuning slide on the valve slide while the Brass Ark tuba does not. just odd.

Those all sound like pretty good guesses to me, and are pretty much where I've landed with this as well. I keep thinking I saw a 1980s Miraphone catalog the other day on the Klaus archive where the Miraphone 180 was listed as having a 390 mm bell. I've gone back and looked, and couldn't find that again.

Lots of other interesting stuff there, including other horns with engraving below the Miraphone mountain logo for music stores, exklusiv, etc. I'm pretty sure that this was engraved before lacquering, the surrounding finish looks the same as the logo.

Beyond what you've suggested, I also wonder if the lack of a serial number indicates that it's some sort of prototype? And I noticed the different MTS bracing as well. Brass Ark also has a Kranz. And the thumb ring is about 2 inches about the bell ferrule, whereas mine overlaps the ferrule. I also have a keel, and Brass Ark 180 does not.

Anyway, it's all a fun game, but the most fun is playing it and deciding what my plans are moving forward. Really want to get this under my fingers and off to a rehearsal.

At least, you have a special valve devoted to playing second-space C down to pitch.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:52 am I checked... Consistent bore of 19.5 mm (about . 768)

The same as a 186. Or 188, even.

Dear thread,
Are you still here…?? really…??

Sorry... I'm more interested in F tubas than I was when the thread started.