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Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:04 am Spent a little time today playing a couple CB quintets. I can see how the upper (top half and above) staff notes could be easier. Maybe I am starting to see the light, not sure though - I am still fighting the fingerings!

Weren't most of the CB quintets arranged for C tuba, anyway?

Mr. Brendan B's comments expand on my "garbage-in/garbage-out" comment.

I was in a university teacher's studio, a few months ago, and spied an associate's (nor theirs) Miraphone 180F tuba in their coat closet.

Given permission, I picked it up and played it (with one of the teacher's on-hand-I-don't-care-for-it-at-all mouthpieces).

The 180F played very nicely for me...actually made me wish that someone would give me one as a gift (as there's just no way that I'm going to allow myself to be permanently financially invested in two F tubas...particularly when mine rocks).

I've never played one of the 180 knock-offs, so I have no idea whether it actually plays-like (or only looks-like) one.
That having been typed...I've generally steered clear of thousand-buck F tubas...and that would certainly include that 181 knock-off, which occasionally re-rears its ugly head.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:14 am...garbage-in/garbage-out ...or otherwise.

Brendan Bohnhorst wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:38 am I have always found that whatever I buzz into the mouthpiece is what comes out of the bell on my F tuba. The tuba doesn't do anything to help me. This is what I believe that Bloke is talking about;

THE MOST HONEST tubas, there are...garbage-in/garbage-out ...or otherwise.

Some tubas will steer you towards a pitch, and an F tuba generally lets you drive anywhere you point it. And to me, that is kind of the point of using one.

I owned a Firebird for a few years. It was a superb F tuba. Intonation was excellent, response was excellent from top to bottom, and a really nice low range. I was a fool for selling it for those reasons, but also because out of all that I have owned, it did the best job of recycling any garbage I put in. It also seemed to have the shortest learning curve. The Yamaha 621 is similar in that it's pretty easy to play, somewhat forgiving, but the intonation and tone are suspect (IMHO, of course).

Conversely, the Symphonie I now have is not as forgiving of my trash, but the beauty of that is it's very steerable and receptive to what the player wants to do. So when I put in good stuff, it does what I want, and it does it with a beautiful (non-Eb) sound.

In golf terms, I would liken the Symphonie to a set of blades - easy for a skilled player to craft all kinds of shots with (although I don't think it is as hard to play as blades, and I'm not a top shelf player by any means). Some of the more modern/bigger/poofier/forgiving F tubas are like the latest, cheapest Calloways sold to the unpracticed masses to make it easier to hit better shots, although the design does not necessarily allow for the same beautiful shots to be made as easily or at all by those same unwashed masses. But it does make it much better, easier, and enjoyable, and there is definitely a place for that. Pros can play well with the more forgiving, produced-for-the-masses clubs, but they have the skill that allows them to make blades work better. But in the tuba world, the pros often use the forgiving models, too, so it's not a perfect comparison (although the sound still tells the story). Even so, the masses don't practice enough to take advantage of blades (or the modern pro equivalent), and they also aren't served by playing with junk (Yo, Terry...), but they can still enjoy the game with the right clubs for how they play the game.

So what does all that rambling amount to? You need to find the right F tuba. Could that be pricey? Maybe. Worth it? That's up to you. Is it necessary? Not at all. To heck with F tuba. But is it possible? Absolutely.

For me, maybe I'm kidding myself - I'm not sure I should play anything but the most forgiving F tubas these days since I don't play as much as I used to. I'm not sure I should play anything but the most forgiving golf clubs, since I don't play as much as I used to. I may get to a point where I want to play a small, easy-playing, point-and-shoot BBb or CC, or one of those big poofy F tubas that plays great but sounds like an Eb, or even jump into Eb and I don't have to put in much practice to maintain anything. Time will tell.

Doc (noting the days of being a 7 handicap and full-time tubist are likely over)

The best F tubas naturally offer a very nice bass singing voice resonance, and (as I expressed in another post) with approximately the same amount of ease as (with no mask ) exhaling or speaking.

The best 3/4ths size contrabass tubas tend to sound (no...not "bad", but...) just a bit as though they're grunting.

The 7/8ths size contrabass tubas (Olds/Reynolds/Conn) "feel" great to many bass trombone doublers, but (though they do not "grunt") seem somewhat stuffy (with a learning curve to adjust the air) to many tubas players.

Additionally (at least, to me...) 3/4th size contrabass tubas don't seem to add anything to ease of facility - when compared to the easier-playing 4/4 and 5/4 ones. The additional resistance of 3/4ths size contrabass tubas (at least with me) adds an additional issue of "extra care" when executing quick or acrobatic passages.

Here is what I have - this guy seems to think it’s worth more than $1k.

https://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.co ... yan-f-tuba

My '07 Honda Element is available for sale for $14,475.

btw...Mario Andretti, I may have heard, is aware of the existence of Honda Motor Company, Ltd., so...

jtm wrote:

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:04 am Spent a little time today playing a couple CB quintets. I can see how the upper (top half and above) staff notes could be easier. Maybe I am starting to see the light, not sure though - I am still fighting the fingerings!

Weren't most of the CB quintets arranged for C tuba, anyway?

They weren’t arranged for any particular tuba. They were arranged for Chuck Daellenbach, and he plays them using a (small!) C tuba that is really no bigger than a smaller F tuba.

Rick “who ‘plays’ them using an F tuba” Denney

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:04 pm Here is what I have - this guy seems to think it’s worth more than $1k.

https://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.co ... yan-f-tuba

The other day I saw someone selling a used Schiller F tuba for $500 more than they cost new

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:24 pm

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:04 pm Here is what I have - this guy seems to think it’s worth more than $1k.

https://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.co ... yan-f-tuba

The other day I saw someone selling a used Schiller F tuba for $500 more than they cost new

I think if I waited long enough and found a desperate person, I might get $1500. $1200 is probably fair - IF I wanted to sell it. I’m still going to play with it a while longer.

I'd be attracted to a nice-condition Miraphone 180 @-$2200, but Mrs. bloke would not approve, unless I had a buyer lined up...

...and (again) it would likely never leave the house (ie. wouldn't generate an income, so...)

Fortuitous that this showed up on the BSO’s Instagram page today. Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

Their tied-over pitches are too long...just like mine.

I must be really good...

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:56 pm Fortuitous that this showed up on the BSO’s Instagram page today. Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

Thank you for this! This is one of the main reasons I am here aside from this very interesting F tuba discussion. Beautiful, humbling and inspiring

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:21 pm I'd be attracted to a nice-condition Miraphone 180 @-$2200, but Mrs. bloke would not approve, unless I had a buyer lined up...

...and (again) it would likely never leave the house (ie. wouldn't generate an income, so...)

If you find one and intend to sell it on for not too much more, you can line me up as a buyer.

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:56 pm

Fortuitous that this showed up on the BSO’s Instagram page today. Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

Is that Hulk Hogan playing 2nd Trombone?

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:56 pm Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

I'm no Chester Schmitz - that was impressive!

Because a 'G' tuba would be too much and an 'E' tuba is not enough

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:56 pm Fortuitous that this showed up on the BSO’s Instagram page today. Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

Hey, that's the Elephant Room F tuba song...

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:35 pm

matt g wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:56 pm

Fortuitous that this showed up on the BSO’s Instagram page today. Mr. Schmitz and his Alex F. Fantastic!

Is that Hulk Hogan playing 2nd Trombone?

That's Ron Barron.

I dunno Terry. I have played F tuba on occasion, but that was years ago. My visit to Bloke place back in June was nice to try a couple F tubas... quite good ones in fact.

But...

I stuck with my (thanks Bloke) "poofy" Eb. Luckily I also have a 15" one that's a little more on the aggressive side so I can make an F tuba-like sound with a piston Eb and only have to worry about 4 valves instead of 6.