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The issue is what are their goals?…

Rick “not thinking this conference will be fun as was always the intent of old” Denney

From the Conference portion of the ITEA website:

“..The ITEC 2023 conference planning committee is excited to feature a diverse list of artists, presenters and ensembles, while emphasizing new music for tuba and euphonium. Proposals with a focus on pedagogy, performances, workshops, or presentations that advance our instruments in the context of diversity, equity and inclusivity will be prioritized…”

Stephen, did I sell you a Conn Giant about a decade ago? I still remember paying a guy with a dually to get that box to the Greyhound office.

graybach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:45 pm

The issue is what are their goals?…

Rick “not thinking this conference will be fun as was always the intent of old” Denney

From the Conference portion of the ITEA website:

“..The ITEC 2023 conference planning committee is excited to feature a diverse list of artists, presenters and ensembles, while emphasizing new music for tuba and euphonium. Proposals with a focus on pedagogy, performances, workshops, or presentations that advance our instruments in the context of diversity, equity and inclusivity will be prioritized…”

Oh.

I guess it’s kinda weird having an academic conference about a musical instrument that’s meant to perform for people in some sense.

I understand that scientific conferences, like things I’m familiar with (ASA, IEEE), charge a fee per head, regardless of how many talks you want to go to.

One conference I’ve presented at, I believe the fee was either waived or cut in half. I think keynote speakers were comped.

Problem is, most professional conference fees are covered by an employer. An employer that has no issue with paying $1000 for a conference, $1500 for travel and lodging, plus the person’s salary to attend.

The vast majority of paid tuba players are self-employed, working for nonprofits with small budgets, or academics. Larger academic institutions probably have no issue covering the $3000-5000 to have someone attend. The remainder likely can’t cover all of the costs responsibly.

It’s an interesting dichotomy that the recent passing of a giant in the small world of tuba playing required assistance to cover medical expenses and funeral costs yet here’s a conference asking for $300 per person to attend. Basically, there’s not much money in tuba playing, and conference fees should reflect that.

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:17 pm

YorkNumber3.0 wrote:I guess I just don’t get this approach. Not everyone will get picked. They have to balance the program some way. Their goals/focus shift from year to year. In years gone by, people would resubmit for the next conference if they felt they still had something pertinent to present.

Glad I don’t have to make these kinds of calls. Especially today.

The issue is what are their goals?

If the stated goals are not reflected in the choices, but unstated goals are, then intelligent people can discern intent (recognizing the difference between motive and intent). Knowing what proposals were rejected is one way of assessing that intent.

Rick “not thinking this conference will be fun as was always the intent of old” Denney

Throwing fits on social media may not be the most effective way to glean information about individual selection or rejection. There will always be some that will not be selected, regardless of the organization’s (public vs true?) motive or (public vs true?) intent.

To me, most of these conferences have lost that fun factor of years ago. No attraction, not going.

It's 2023, and I don't think anyone should be surprised that DEI initiatives start to make visible impacts in programming decisions. That's kind of the whole point of it. And just like anything else, if you don't like that, then vote, run for office, and speak with your wallet by not joining, renewing, or supporting them. None of this is unique to ITEC.

Professional conferences are on a much larger scale, and are typically sales and marketing efforts for exposure and developing future business.

I guess that's the case -- somewhat -- for academic conferences too, to get your name and yourself out there and be as visible as possible. That's not free to do for anyone. Why not just attend and be happy that ITEC is even in America this year? In the end, there are always be X performers, Y positions, and X > Y by a longshot. It's jamming 10 pounds of tuba _ into a 5 pound sack. And even if your tuba _ is better than the tuba _ of many others, it's still only a 5 pound sack, yo. Conference proposals are not the same as auditions. There are many competing factors for who gets selected for what.

And in terms of musicians dying with no money... that's a tale as old as time. Always sad and unfortunate, but jeez, when did financial wealth become an expectation? I don't know, or pretend to know, anyone's financial situation... but there have been many big/household name musicians in history who died penniless.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:15 pm I guess the only thing I have to say about any of those comments is

T.U.B.A.

I've never seen something get its name changed without having that thing being fundamentally changed in just about every imaginable way. Rarely have I seen something change for the better.

Amen to this! I remember being so excited about the formation of T.U.B.A., and couldn’t wait to join. Loved the old journal. It was fun! Even the name of the organization was fun! And of course Harvey Phillips had a big role at the beginning, and he was fun! He was the JOY of tuba playing personified! And of course everyone understood that euphonium players were included, it didn’t have to be in the name. I took a long break from playing, so I’m not exactly sure how or when the transition to the more “serious” ITEC took place. But I don’t believe Harvey would recognize the organization as it is now. They took out the “Universal” part (for ALL players) and turned it into something for only CERTAIN players. I have no use for it, and I suspect I’m not alone.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:30 am It's 2023, and I don't think anyone should be surprised that DEI initiatives start to make visible impacts in programming decisions. That's kind of the whole point of it. And just like anything else, if you don't like that, then vote, run for office, and speak with your wallet by not joining, renewing, or supporting them. None of this is unique to ITEC.

Many of these organizations have written DEI statements, unlike ITEA. Also, defining in the proposals on which diversity standards would be given preference (performers, topics, themes, composition topic, composer) with details would have been preferred. I didn’t apply because of the vagueness of this. Plus, these standards differ per country, where some of these standards are not considered “diverse” but normal. Since it is an international organization, these things should be considered if making a push or focus.

Oh, shut up and give us your money.

You'll get nothing and like it!

ITEA makes its agenda pretty clear on the website…

What I see in the local university is "new music" that in my mind is "structured noise involving musical notation." I'm not interested in hearing that in concerts, and so go to very, very few of them. Even though ITEC is just down the road a ways, I doubt I'll go for several reasons --- the cost, the problem with the drive, and the fact that I might not enjoy those concerts either. There IS good new music out there, but it doesn't seem to be chosen by the academic hoity-toity to play. And I don't get that. What happened to musicality?

I have had several very good conversations through email, text, phone, and private messaging since my original post. Very insightful so far. Please keep it coming. Steve Shoop- (972) 898-2922/stephen_shoop@yahoo.com

graybach wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:49 am ITEA makes its agenda pretty clear on the website…


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They said proposals highlighting diversity would be prioritized. What exactly does this constitute? Being a diverse individual? Playing music that represents diverse concepts? Playing music that is written by a diverse composer? This was about a decade ago, but someone on another instrument said that playing music by women composers isn’t diverse, others say it is. The statement says “ Welcome members of any nationality, race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation
Welcome members of all playing levels, from beginners to professionals
Celebrate and actively promote the diverse musical styles of euphonium and tuba players worldwide
Include members from all financial backgrounds” When I mentioned my last statement, read any university’s DEI statement and see how detailed it is. Again, I mentioned that some of the things we state is promoting diversity might be considered the norm in other countries.

So let’s use one of the failed proposals. One notable one has mentioned the amount of debt he was in from his socioeconomic status on a podcast. Overcoming all of that is tough (take it from someone who grew up not having much…). I can tell you that as a student, I would have wanted to hear him perform just to see it was possible. After reading a book of a respected colleague recently, it made me respect how nice he was when I met him while having the monetary issues.

Don't expect anything in the US to make sense. Most of it doesn't.

In my opinion, the fact that there is a declared "target audience" at all shows just how much this organization has failed its constituency.

It has become a Mutual Admiration Society and has outlived its usefulness. I agree with Joe: It's time for something new.

graybach wrote:ITEA makes its agenda pretty clear on the website…

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I’ve been familiar with TUBA/ITEA for many decades, and I can’t think of a time when all of those points were not true.

But I don’t see much on the program aimed at, say, beginners, particularly impecunious beginners.

Rick “whose first ITEC was in 1986” Denney

Will there be a lecture of how effective forcing our colleagues to get jabbed, playing brass instruments with holes cut thru ones mask and bell covers saved us all from extinction?

I expect documented cases of viral mist contamination as a follow up.

russiantuba wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:41 pm read any university’s DEI statement and see how detailed it is. Again, I mentioned that some of the things we state is promoting diversity might be considered the norm in other countries.

On one hand it is "diversity" and on the other it is "the norm"?

Again, what do those words with the rainbow tuba graphic actually have to do with tuba playing?

I suspect that this ITEC appeals more to those hanging out at the "other" tuba forum.

With apologies to George Orwell, it sounds like all the proposals were equal, but some proposals were more equal than others.

T.U.B.A:

I remember sitting ten feet from Tommy Johnson and listening to/watching him play Armand Russell's "Suite Concertante" with the local university's woodwind quintet.