TubaForum.net

[
Tarn-X: NASTY stuff. Smells like rotten eggs when it dissolves tarnish, but it WORKS, and it works well. Horn isn't tarnish-free, but my hands don't turn black after touching it.

My thumb is most comfortable sitting on top of the thumb ring where it's placed now. I'll have it moved up there when I take it in.

The left-hand fifth is GREAT, especially on this particular model. HOWEVER: It presents a problem. Low G. If using 2345 for that note, one cannot manipulate a slide out for that note. Yeah, all 5v F tubas have this problem, but most others you can frantically yank a slide out far enough to get it down.

It's perfectly lippable. I'm just noticing the difference with the LH 5th valve.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 8:32 pm
I miss my Willson a LOT. Of all the horns I've owned, it was the best built. Mine was 5502, and that number "02" was stamped on every single piece, from valve paddles to inner slide tubes... No mixup of parts for old number 5502.

Well, my Jin Bao Yamaclone 621 F is serial number XXX20002, and I noticed yesterday doing some maintenance that all my inner slide tubes are also marked "002," so clearly the quality is comparable.

Sousaswag wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 6:39 pm Tarn-X: NASTY stuff. Smells like rotten eggs when it dissolves tarnish, but it WORKS, and it works well. Horn isn't tarnish-free, but my hands don't turn black after touching it.

Tarn-X is really interesting. Did you use a spray bottle with it, or just a cloth? It seems like it works irrespective of amount of scrubbing done (sciencey folks: I assume once the Tarn-X has reacted with the tarnish, that's that, and the chemical reaction has ended, so scrubbing/polishing it does nothing?). It definitely works. It also has a bleaching effect, which I realized after I ruined a shirt while doing this work outside last summer:


Note the spray bottle that says "TARN-X / NOT H2O!"


These were in-progress pics of a severely tarnished tuba that eventually ended up looking very nice after I applied 3M Tarnishield, since Tarn-X doesn't polish at all. It took about three bottles of Tarn-X (which made the tuba a uniform flat gray color) and two bottles of Tarnishield to complete.



I'm not sure about other silver polishes, but Tarnishield leaves a protective layer that prevents tarnishing in the future. Something like that might be handy for those inner crevices in your Willson that are a pain to clean. It also smells weirdly nice.

Man, when I had my 3200 piston F I always fantasized about the rotary version. Mine was perfect for Eb parts in brass band. I hope you are able to get this one up to snuff and fully decked out after years of sitting. Very cool tuba!

Apparently (??) Tarn-x is similar to the silverware dip stuff.

I've not bought Tarn-x, but the silver dip stinks strongly of sulfur and (yes) chemically (not abrasively) removes tarnish.

When I've owned satin silver instruments, the silver dip (with a rag and rubber gloves) was a lifesaver, as all abrasive will embeds in a satin silver finish, and - by the time most of an abrasive has been cleaned off/out-of a satin silver finish - the finish is dull and it still needs polishing.

I used it in a spray bottle. I didn’t use the whole bottle. Barely a quarter of it.

Basically, Saturday I got most of the major gunk off of the big bows using Wright’s cream, which was a lot of work.

Yesterday, I took the horn out and sprayed it liberally with Tarn-X, and then wiped it off and sprayed the entire thing down with water. I assume that neutralizes what’s left of the Tarn-X.

Then, I sprayed it down using Hagerty’s spray polish, which gave it a really nice shine.

Finally, I sprayed the entire horn with Windex to get the residue of any polish off.

I didn’t spend much time getting into all the cracks and crevices; it needs a thorough interior cleaning but I didn’t want to leave all that for my repairman to do. What I did will save him a BUNCH of time and I’m confident he’ll have it looking great.

The main reason I did this was because it was turning my hands and clothes black, and that’s gross.

When I've done bright silver cleanups, I've used Wright's mixed with Dawn, and just used my bare hands.

It wears off the tarnish (possibly) faster, as it distributes more evenly, and - with the Dawn mixed in - I can use the garden hose (followed by a towel) to clean it off.

A few spots show up (that my fingers missed around the valveset) I go back over those (same formula), hit it will the hose again, pat it dry again, and follow up with a silver polishing cloth.

Never thought of Windex on silver... I only thought it was okay for lacquer. Will have to try it out sometime.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:37 am When I've done bright brass cleanups, I've used Wright's mixed with Dawn, and just used my bare hands.

It wears off the tarnish (possibly) faster, as it distributes more evenly, and - with the Dawn mixed in - I can use the garden hose (followed by a towel) to clean it off.

A few spots show up (that my fingers missed around the valveset) I go back over those (same formula), hit it will the hose again, pat it dry again, and follow up with a silver polishing cloth.

Just so I understand, are you saying you just schmeared it around with your bare hands on the tuba, no rag or whatever?

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:39 am Never thought of Windex on silver... I only thought it was okay for lacquer. Will have to try it out sometime.

My understanding is something like Pledge for lacquer and Windex for silver.

makes sense:

Pledge = darker
Windex = brighter

(a joke)

To be clear, I've actually never liked pledge because it leaves a really slippery residue when I've used it on my lacquer-finished instruments. Maybe I've used too much? Not sure.

Sousaswag wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 12:19 pm To be clear, I've actually never liked pledge because it leaves a really slippery residue when I've used it on my lacquer-finished instruments. Maybe I've used too much? Not sure.

As long as it's lacquer and not bare brass, I've had fine results wiping lacquer with Windex. Apparently ammonia can react with brass, but we get the ammonia-free stuff anyway, so that's no problem. Pledge (well, off-brand Aldi Pledge for me) does leave an oily residue which is great for protecting your walnut dining table but not so great for trying to wrangle the 18 pound instrument in your lap.

arpthark wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:52 am

bloke wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:37 am When I've done bright brass cleanups, I've used Wright's mixed with Dawn, and just used my bare hands.

It wears off the tarnish (possibly) faster, as it distributes more evenly, and - with the Dawn mixed in - I can use the garden hose (followed by a towel) to clean it off.

A few spots show up (that my fingers missed around the valveset) I go back over those (same formula), hit it will the hose again, pat it dry again, and follow up with a silver polishing cloth.

Just so I understand, are you saying you just schmeared it around with your bare hands on the tuba, no rag or whatever?

yes...and I meant SILVER (not brass).
I cut my fingernails to the quick (to avoid scratching the instrument) and my fingertips allow me to work the silver polish in/around tight spots.
I would NEVER do this with the chemical tarnish removers, but I've never suffered ill consequences from doing it with the abrasive ones.

Silver tarnish is interesting... the tarnish is actually a protective coating on the silver -- yes, it is a form of corrosion, but silver (as a precious metal) does not degrade due to corrosion beyond the tarnish.

And 100% pure silver basically does not tarnish. The problem is -- like gold -- 100% pure silver is very soft, and too soft to be of any practical use. So it gets mixed with other materials (like copper) to make it stronger. For example, sterling silver is 92.5% silver, and 7.5% other stuff... mostly copper. But the problem with that is copper is highly susceptible to tarnish and corrosion. So the same copper that gives sterling (and other forms of) silver its strength also makes it more susceptible to tarnish.

Silver tarnish -- I believe -- is actually a mix of Silver Sulfide and Copper Sulfide, and that's why the TarnX smells like sulfur when it removes the tarnish. Whether by chemical dip or by polishing, you want to be careful though to not do too much, or you'll mess up the silver plating and remove more of the actual silver than you want. Even though it's not abrasive, every time you remove tarnish (Silver Sulfide), you're removing a little bit of silver.

When you use TarnX, you should only work in smaller sections at a time, because you don't want it to sit for too long (a minute or two) and you'll want to neutralize it (lots of water or baking soda/water wash). The streaking on Blake's horn shows what happens if it's not so uniformly applied, and can be annoying to deal with. But for huge amounts of old tarnish... it's going to take a few passes anyway. The TarnX people recommend using something like a few drops of TarnX to a gallon of water plus Dawn to go over the streaky areas and even it out. I don't think I used the Dawn, but that basically worked fine for me as well, to even things out. Some of the streakiness was tough to remove, so again, small sections at a time.

After that, a proper wipedown with silver polish (I use Wright's Silver Cream, because for some reason I have a few cans of it here).

Anyway...

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 1:47 pm The streaking on Blake's horn shows what happens if it's not so uniformly applied, and can be annoying to deal with.

Yes. That streaking was actually the back of the tuba after I had been working on the front of the bell. Since this thing was SO absolutely-filthy-black, I disregarded the specific manufacturer instructions, but made sure to hose it down very frequently. It took a lot of work to get that to shine up. I am likely going to use Tarn-X on my satin silver Besson Eb, and will be a little less balls-to-the-wall about that, since it is actually in really nice shape.

Sorry to derail David's thread with a load of silver polish hooey.

I'm not thinking that silver anodes are 100% silver.
When I keep my ears open - around people who do it (and not just in a little glass jar) - I hear blflflflflflfl3rslfelflflfl "antimony"...among other recognizable words.

I threw the gig bag in the trash this morning. I’ve never felt so happy to throw something out!

My GOSH, the valves are both heavy and loud. I took some video of me playing this tuba, as mediocre as it may be, I’m very much enjoying it. I will post some things to YouTube later.

.

I think "Behold" is a product that is a little bit different from other spray furniture wax/polish. It's not as easy to use on a tuba, but somehow I think it leaves it a little bit cleaner...(??)

Somebody tell me I'm full of beans, and explain why.

Does anybody know why this is happening?

This screw with the crude red arrow in the photo, has worked itself loose twice now as I've been playing. If I tighten it all the way down, the valve no longer moves.

If I keep it loose enough for the valve TO move, it's in no way tight and ends up working itself out again. What's going on?

(The horn is going in for a spa treatment/dent removal/thumb ring move/vent valves on Monday next week)

[