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I don't think I have ever played a sousaphone -- maybe once; my Star friend tried to give me an Eb sousa (old metal something,) I put it on, and it about squashed me in place. I don't know if I even played any notes before I managed to escape. So ya'll have fun with yours!

If you have a big brass sousaphone that does have after ring, what can be done about it?

jtm wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:55 pm If you have a big brass sousaphone that does have after ring, what can be done about it?

...??

I dunno...
- Try another same-make bell...??
- Get a same-make fiberglass bell...??
- If King, try a Jupiter bell...??
- If Jupiter, try a King bell...??

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:26 pm I don't think I have ever played a sousaphone -- maybe once; my Star friend tried to give me an Eb sousa (old metal something,) I put it on, and it about squashed me in place. I don't know if I even played any notes before I managed to escape. So ya'll have fun with yours!

If you ever come across (being redundant) a pebble finish King with only two brass acorn screws holding on the valveset and (if a few skinned places in the paint) notice that the body connectors are aluminum (not brass) try one of those on...

It will probably seem "big" but (I'd predict) not all that heavy...and - actually - the "donut" (the circle in which the person fits) is about as small as you'll find.

This thing plays so well that I'm just having fun (since so many of the "basses" parts are in my head) just playing "basses" parts to various marches...as well as Bordogni/Rochut exercises, etc. One of my orchestras' opening concert is next weekend...They're a "hybrid" (private) opener the day before (all different music) and we're playing a funky version of the SSB on that show, but - if we do the traditional one at the next night's (Saturday) season opener, I'm standing up and playing it on this sousaphone (as hinted at earlier).

@Three Valves

Okay... regarding the hotel where we played for the Potomac River Jazz Club (the night BEFORE the night that we played for that huge benefit party for 3,000 attendees)... I'm pretty sure that the Jazz Club event was at the Willard, which is right downtown.
I think it was probably on the ground floor - in a really nice wood paneled room. There was a grand piano in there that was either put in there for us, or was already in there.
I recall that the club event (not the big benefit - the subsequent night) was reviewed in the WAPO, and the reviewer made too much of a big deal (as if it was some really fascinating musical thing ) of me reaching over to Gene Rush's keyboard and playing a few bass notes on a couple of songs - just to be silly. (I was just making light of the fact that the band was packed into a very small space like seven sardines - the Jazz Club members having been packed in there as well... (I was so close to Gene that I had to be careful not to bump into him while I was playing) I also remember the reviewer saying that Bob Baker, the clarinetist, didn't play tons of notes, but that he did play the right notes - which was a pretty good evaluation of Bob's playing... though I don't think we played a bunch of fast show-off-y numbers at that club meeting/concert. I think George (cornet/bandleader) wanted to play some more esoteric types of things for them... selections that had interesting chord changes and interesting verses to go with the choruses.

I think the rest of the band was flown up there by whatever charity organization was doing the benefit concert, and they were put up somewhere.. not at the Willard which would have been way too expensive. I chose to drive and refunded my plane ticket for the money it cost - which was possible to do back then, drove up there, and took Mrs. bloke with me. We stayed at my brother's house in Arlington. Wow. We were still in our twenties.
My brother, his wife, and Mrs. bloke all demonstrated how fascinated they were with the band - by staying home that night.

The Willard is still a class act.

I’ve never even been there for drinks or a looky-loo!

The #1 slide inside slide tubes were both covered with dents that had been 1/2-@$$ sanded out.
The #1 slide bow had the armpit beat out of it and (with those slide tubes) it was nearly impossible to extract, so a "repair tech" (or some "I repaired horns one summer") person stuck something in there and beat the hell out of it.

I had a .687" bore (same bore / same application) Olds sousaphone bow...(NOT the same bow...just close enough to NOT fit).
The geometry was slightly wider, and the metal thickness was several thousands thicker.
I worked on it for quite a while (Olds slide bow and new King inside slide tubing which was on hand) and I've now got a viable #1 slide.
The lower #3 slide bow was trashed, and (at least - during that era) is the same as the #1 upper return. I hand an ancient King sousaphone upper return on hand, so I swapped out the #3 slide bow (easy).
The main slide water key has two cracks in the nipple (dripping condensation) and a clarinet pad had been stuck in the water key cup.
I used pliers to squeeze those cracks closed, painted it with thick nail polish, and promised it I would revisit it. The water key now has an appropriate synthetic cork. The main slide can pull a vacuum.

The instrument continues to play stronger.

Of course these King sousaphones are not perfectly in tune (3 valves, and - oh yeah - a tuba), but I'm still really puzzled by how WELL in tune they DO play.

a case:

I have this SUPER-COMPACT industrial-hardware HOLTON sousaphone case which dates (at least) back to the 1950's.
It has old stickers, and a "HOLTON" brass nameplate.
I'm going to tag @dp here, because - in particular - he'll enjoy seeing it.

I've never been able to fit anything into it (I'm not much of a buyer/reseller of Holton sousaphones...)

I thought (maybe...??) it would fit some future-acquired E-flat sousaphone...or (of course) a Holton B-flat (it's small).

I was able to BARELY squeeze this KING sousaphone in it ("small circle", but not as small as Holton), but I had to removed the #2 slide (which - back in 1930 - had a pull loop that sticks out).

I like compact cases, I don't like padded bags, and I don't like buying stuff.

I MUCH PREFER the sound of this thick-brass 1930/1960 King sousaphone to a c. 1990 fiberglass King (which has been my goal to acquire), but - if someone's interested in this outfit - I suppose I wouldn't mind setting the cash aside and trade "resonance" (along with cool features on the Kings - which were abandoned long ago) for "lightweight fiberglass".

I'm not sure that I should be offering it for sale (and no, I'm not trying to imitate nor mock those "I'm reluctantly selling my..." ads which have caused all of us to roll our eyes), but yeah: I suppose that I would still go for a (second generation - between those made originally and those made now) King fiberglass. I DID find a half gallon of "the real stuff" (paint stripper, from before it was banned), which a friend has and told me I can have - so I'm probably going to strip the old silver paint off the body. I have seen both silver plating and brass (in worn spots), so I'm slightly confused...Maybe, the worn spots are just where (just as the silver paint wore off later) the silver plating wore off earlier...and if no one is interested in making an offer on this instrument, I'm perfectly satisfied with it, and - at this point in my life - I can still prop up a 30-pound sousaphone for at least two or three hours ( as long as its only for one day).

Took it to a community band rehearsal tonight. I had a blast. This thing plays so well, and it's so easy to play it in tune with three valves. I'm thinking it has "wide slots" like @LeMark was talking about with his E flat tuba, but about the only issues are a not too badly flat fifth partial (maybe "188 flat") which is really easy to move right in tune, and of course the fourth partial 2-3 valve combination - which is so commonly flat, in this case: F sharp/ G flat... but it can be pushed in tune as well. All of the upper return loops are tuning slides on this older (93 years old) instrument. I'm sort of toying with the idea of precision fitting the two upper number three slides, hooking them together with braces - so they slide with each other, and then having a short pull double upper three slide, which can be pulled for the pair of 1-2-3 pitches... but I can get by without that, and it might begin to spoil the fun. The band played four Sousa marches tonight. Can you imagine how much fun I had?
I'm definitely using it to stand and play the Banner this weekend (two orchestra concerts this weekend which are season openers, and season openers always involve beginning with the Banner - not listed on the program).

Just like the perfect hot sauce is an Ideal balance of really good flavors <and> hot, the sound of this instrument is the ideal balance of phat <and> bark.

LOL...
Someone recorded to National Emblem and stuck it on Facebook. It's a pretty good band.. good enough. I'm sure it was me who flubbed the C on the dog fight. I think it would be a pretty good idea to shorten the upper loop of the #1 circuit and keep that upper #1 slide pulled out where it's currently positioned ( when pushed all the way in), and then be able to reach over there and push it in further for that C... something to do later, but - in the meantime - approach that pitch more cautiously. It's funny that they happened to record one tune at theit rehearsal last night in the part of the rehearsal that I happened to sit in. I actually left home about the time that rehearsal started, so I missed a good bit of it.
It was really good too be able to play through some tunes with a actual ensemble before using that thing in a concert somewhere or on a gig...
...so I learned a couple things:
- I learned that I need to be able to push that slide in for C in order to be safe, and
- also learned that it doesn't have that water key on the lower fixed loop that King put on the instruments later. I was collecting water in there, and there was no way to get rid of it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1309678 ... 874345021/

I'm not making any excuses, but I'm getting ready to take this out of town with me and I finally got the two correct tuning bits, but putting them together I discovered that the single King tuning bit that I had was out of round. Basically, it had a dent that I couldn't see because it was brown. It was leaking pretty badly, and King bits are sort of difficult to repair, because they're kind of large and thick. I finally got this put-together pair of King tuning bits holding a suction, and then I got a suction between the bits and the neck, and then I got a suction between the mouthpiece, the bits, and the neck. I'm not imagining it; that the thing has even more zing and more security than it did on Monday night - when I was playing those marches and having a really good time.

Sounds really good.

Listening over the past however many years - when I've been paying more attention, I think the regular King brass sousaphones - particularly those made back when they were really made well - sound more like really really good tubas than all the others... YET they still sound like sousaphones. It's sort of hard to explain. I guess that's why we make musical sounds, rather than just talking about making musical sounds.
============
I did use this instrument tonight to play the Star Spangled Banner in the season opener orchestra concert. The trombone players and I both noticed the same thing: the King sousaphone and my big Miraphone 98 tuba sound just about the same in the big hall. The sousaphone only sounds significantly different outdoors - since it projects forward instead of up, or in a small room where it's bouncing off of a wall that's only 10 to 30 feet away.
It's still puzzles me how well a King sousaphone plays in tune with only three valves... no, not exquisite - but quite well, and very easy to move pitched to where they need to be... and just about effortlessly.

The trio to National Emblem is one of the things I use to work on my playing, really exercises a couple of my weaknesses. The way I'm used to doing it, though, those Ab notes at the beginning are all loud - from the first beat, same dynamic. (Probably too loud, considering that my music puts it at just one f, but I'm sure that's a common failing.)

yep...
I try to hold back on those first four A-flats...
It's really tempting to goose them.

This may seem crazy, but most of the times I've played all of the patriotic marches I played them with little jazz combos where we were hired to play at neighborhood 4th of July parties, and we "marched" down the street with all of them and their little wagons and decorated bicycles and played various sort of from memory - subconsciously memorized during our school days.

.

The trumpet repair person who lives about 3 and 1/2 hours away canceled - due to some family emergency, so - if it gets warm enough today - I think today is going to be "strip the silver paint off of the silver plated sousaphone" day.

I chemically removed the black tarnish, so here's what's been revealed.

There's a good bit of silver gone from
- the contact points (shoulder support bow, right hand area)
- back of the 2nd branch ("bottom bow") where I removed quite a few dents

...but there's more silver remaining than I though.

I've never encountered ANY of these King-made copper-pistons instruments (c. 90 years old) whereby the valves are particularly worn at all.
theory:
-The softer copper is easy on the casings.
- The brass casings are easy on the copper.

- The tolerances on these pistons are actually closer than the new 20K pistons (which I've mic'ed out at 4/1000" difference).
- New-ish King nickel-plated pistons fit more loosely in these casings than the oem copper pistons
(whereby I'm suspecting that new King sousaphone pistons might - ?? - fit more loosely than these 90+ year old copper pistons).

If I sell it, I'll shine it up the best I can, and pick over some pencil-point-sized dents in the inner (5th and 6th) branches a bit more.
I will also finish installing the added-on 6th branch water key.

Ups-and-extras would be buffing the bell interior down to brass, and lacquering it (hundreds of dollars).

I would offer it in the very compact/barely-fits-in-it (more likely to fit in a car) old Holton hard case, or (optionally) a generic 30-year-old wood case that offers an easier fit.

I'm thinking $2800 (firm) plus any shipping costs, but I'm still wondering it it's best to keep it.

Very candidly, I'm "weighing" this wonderful-sounding King vs. a (particular vintage, when found) fiberglass King.
- This one surely sounds better.
- The fiberglass (from a particular era) weighs less.
- The difference (hopefully) could go towards restoring some of our savings (having propped up a couple of our adult children, during the shutdown - in addition to the top-down engineered inflation we're all fighting).

btw (and I'm really NOT offering to do this for a buyer), I've figured out a way to dial in the intonation on a (King, which is already the best in-tune sousaphone) with only three valves:
- upper #1 slide: Shorten the overall #1 circuit, and tune it so that - with the upper #1 slide pulled way out - it's the same length as before.
- lower #1 slide: install a R.H. thumb trigger to push the LOWER #1 slide out.

B-natural and low E: thumb trigger (thrusting the LOWER #1 out) for tuning 1-2-3
2nd space C and B: left hand pushes the UPPER #1 slide IN for those two pitches