TubaForum.net

I WILL get back to the Holton 345 B-flat #2…
…particularly now that Miraphone 84 B-flat #2 is done.

In the meantime, a whole bunch of medium and small jobs are piling up on me.

Once I get the 345 #2 valveset put together nicely, everything else is downhill from there.

Mostly, I need for my post-surgery strength and issues (not to mention these weird cold/flu sort-of symptoms) to get themselves solidified again.

tubaing wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:32 am I got the case put together a few weeks ago. Thrilled to be able to get it around with working hardware. The inside is currently just a moving blanket I wrap around the tuba.





Yesterday, I had a rehearsal with my Army quintet and saw that the new 5450s had shown up. I have a lot of past experience playing on 5450s having owned one for about 4 years and then using one all last summer at the Army School of Music... now it sounds downright bland compared to my 345.

I’m doing basically the same thing (less the bed lining) with the wood case that Joe provided with the 184 I just received. I found my stuff at DIYroadcasesstore.com—good prices.

Rick “should arrive in a couple of days” Denney

Now that Miraphone 84 #2 is out the door, this Miraphone 98 thing is resolved, and - hopefully - I’m on the backside of feeling like crap, it’s time to push through some small jobs, and try to get back to Holton 345 #2. The most challenging parts of that job are actually already all done…and someone would like to be owning/playing it

tubaing wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:32 amYesterday, I had a rehearsal with my Army quintet and saw that the new 5450s had shown up. I have a lot of past experience playing on 5450s having owned one for about 4 years and then using one all last summer at the Army School of Music... now it sounds downright bland compared to my 345.

Update: I played the 5450 again (and was formally issued it and got to take it home... plays like a dream... when I used the funky looking ICON 24AW mouthpiece that came with it. Also liked how that mouthpuece made my Holton sound. But it made a huge difference on the 5450. Here's a pic with my 2 horns with the tax-payer owned one (thanks btw).

That’s a nice picture, but here’s just one little hint:

Stand farther away, crouch down lower, and zoom in, rather than standing so close and up above them.

Doing so eliminates most of the wonky distorted appearance of tubas - that occurs in so many pictures.

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would add them here as well.

I replaced the plastic Yamaha finger button inserts with these black mother of pearl ones a few back and I love how they look and feel.

OK...
Back to this (after ALLLLLLL this time).

I pulled a gorgeous upper bow off an old TOP-ACTION Holton for this instrument, but its geometry is just too far off (same legs, but bow portion is too wide).

...so I was forced to go back to the one that came with the instrument. It's an original lacquer (never overhauled) part, but it might have come fairly close to being able to slip underneath someone's gate or fence (ie. sorta flattened.

I took it off the (other) 345 that I had today, and decided to get it in installation-ready condition.

It's smoother than it looks in the picture. The lines are (nearly all) witness marks in the lacquer from the PREVIOUSLY existing dents, whereas some are "print-through" from the interior (not buffed, obviously) surface.

One picture has my reading spectacles in it, for perspective (this is a huge - well: 6/4) upper bow.

Getting past this obstacle makes me feel much better (and much more hopeful/optimistic) regarding this project.

ICK... These pictures sure do look way WORSE than the bow is actually SMOOTH...
...I suppose you're just going to have to believe me...or not...

Being handmade, the dents on the INSIDE curve were pretty resistant...ie. THICK metal.





I bet ch'all are surprised to see THIS thread updated.

I’m glad to see the thread updated.

You inspired me, Bill.

I went back out there (quit c. 10 P.M...and I'm still sick) with some worn-out sandpaper and knocked down as much as I deemed safe of the "print-through" pimples from the inside surface to the outside surface (in the bow area).

This actually SAVES metal, because it reduces the temptation to buff the crap out of that same area...

...and yes, there will be flaws. I'm NOT a silversmith...

...ie. I'm NOT going to copper-plate the crap out of this piece - numerous times - belt-sand it, polish it, and re-copper plate and re-polish it until it's baby-butt smooth. I'm just going to REPAIR it...ie. straighten out the damage to the very best of my ability (and the only way to hide the copper "Bondo" - re: silversmithing) is to silver plate an instrument - once that tack has been taken.

Methinks that is a lot of silver and it will cost some extra green.

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:32 pm Methinks that is a lot of silver and it will cost some extra green.

Mostly that silversmithing type of "bondo" method is a whole bunch of copper and a whole bunch of labor (belt sanding and buffing).

To me, really-messed-up top bows on huge tubas...

(except for Conn 2XJ, because the top bow on that one is the equivalent of a bottom bow on a 3/4)
https://i.imgur.com/Hi6bOjP.jpg

...are about the most difficult things to repair nicely, because the bow area (pretty much...) has to be repaired by hand, and often features two or three cracks...Yeah...someone can b.s.-fix the cracks with plumbing (silver-bearing/no-lead) solder, but (well...) that ain't right, and brass patches are just gross.

I suppose I could describe what I started with, but you (the collective "you") probably don't want to know.

This is with the lacquer removed. I went over a few more places...I can see one last very subtle "facet" in the top bow curvature (on one side) that I may revisit. Other imperfections are going to need to be stamped "WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF AN OLD BLOKE".

This bow (which was a challenge to repair) is why I blew that money on that pre-345 Holton top-action carcass (to harvest its top bow), but (again, and alas) that gorgeous no-dents bow (even though the entire rest of the geometry is spot-on) is just too wide (again: by c. 1/2 inch or so)...
...so here we are:






bloke "I guess I'm fairly good, but I ain't the Michelangelo of Sheet Brass (again: at least not without resorting to coppersmithing techniques)...OK...but my cat (who actually LIKES me) is better-lookin' that your cat."

Them's fightin' words. Button the Cat has thrown down on that ludicrous (from her perspective) claim.

But you are making me feel a bit better about where I ended up with my old 101, given my unwillingness to anneal or sand it.

It seems to me the problem with these bows is that you can't get them into a dent machine easily--enough curvature in the dent rod to get to the middle of the bow won't go through the straight sections. That leaves magnets and burnishing rollers as the available tools, short of copper-plating and sanding.

Rick "Button prefers the cases" Denney

I guess brass plating is actually a "thing", but I just don't know how it would turn out (over copper) - nor how much it would cost.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:52 pm I guess brass plating is actually a "thing", but I just don't know how it would turn out (over copper) - nor how much it would cost.

I was thinking the same thing.

...so here's the genuine 345 bow (vs. the gorgeous never-dented top-action Holton upper bow) laid in place (no soldering or braces) after un-soldering the Holton top-action/too-wide upper bow.

This correct 345 upper bow (which now looks "nice" - but not perfect), fits in the scheme of things as it should, with plenty of room for the bell (which is laid in place out-of-plane, but placed well enough so as folks can see what that to which I'm referring).

(In a way-earlier post, I thought that the two upper bows were the same - since their leg-lengths and end diameters were the same...I never - ie. lazy - bothered to measure the width of the arch...making an assumption that should have never been made.)

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:20 pm ...so here's the genuine 345 bow (vs. the gorgeous never-dented top-action Holton upper bow) laid in place (no soldering or braces) after un-soldering the Holton top-action/too-wide upper bow.

This correct 345 upper bow (which now looks "nice" - but not perfect), fits in the scheme of things as it should, with plenty of room for the bell (which is laid in place out-of-plane, but placed well enough so as folks can see what that to which I'm referring).

If you've got it all taken apart like that already, shouldn't you cut it to C?

arpthark wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:28 pm If you've got it all taken apart like that already, shouldn't you cut it to C?

Actually, I'm considering parting it out on eBay.

Very nice!

How long has the bell been sitting to get that nice patina?

Tubajug wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:41 pm Very nice!

How long has the bell been sitting to get that nice patina?

...as long as so much other stuff that's in bloke's attic, but it' going to visit the buffing machine.

@Rick Denney
I've deeply loved all the cats I've ever had.
This one (as have been all the others) is - yet again - different from all the rest.
Cats are amazing.