POLL ADDED !!! - Holton BB-345 twin-spin (first actual picture on p.2)

[bloke]

The issue is that they bent the upper 4th circuit loop for this valveset too wide, which gummed up the works just a bit...but (after undoing their less desirable solution, due to their miscalculation) I did "something else".

Once Holton installed that part (and decided to leave it in place rather than making another narrower-bent part) they obviously made the decision to sacrifice "good" towards "symmetry", whereas I chose the opposite tack.

[bloke]

To be clear, before I disassembled it, the valve section featured the same slight tilt, but with factory mashed-in places to boot.

I might possibly (though unlikely) stare at that upper #4 circuit and see about replacing part of it (that's a bunch of fabricating, which won't accomplish anything, other than more symmetry...)

[bloke]

1/ I recently picked up a nice 6/4 Winter case...It almost fits, and I believe it will with some lid-padding removed.

2/ I just received a P.O. from a school (the school system with the huge plumbing disaster, which put on other P.O.'s on temporary hold), so I guess I'm setting this thing aside for a bit, again...and I have a pops concert this weekend, so...

[bloke]

I really don't want to - and probably won't...but I believe that a 186 main tuning slide bow is the same bore as the 4th circuit on a Holton 345.

I'm going to grab one is see if its significantly narrower that that top loop.

[the elephant]

Just passing on info…

According to my shipping tags from Miraphone, the 186 MTS crook measurements are

ID - 20.35 mm (.801”)
OD - 21.22 mm (.835”)

[bloke]

Just passing on info…

According to my shipping tags from Miraphone, the 186 MTS crook measurements are

ID - 20.35 mm (.801”)
OD - 21.22 mm (.835”)

yeah...that bore size is plenty close to Holton's 4th circuit bore, and the 86 MTS bow width narrowness would absolutely "do the trick".
(Without triple-checking, it's larger bore than Holton #4, but the Mira tubing wall thickness is less than Holton, so...)
I just asked Christian for a phone chat tomorrow (7 A.M./2 P.M.) and already send him pictures.
A 186 bow for the top of the 4th circuit (with a pair of super-long legs) would straighten out this valveset - allowing me to bend the main slide dogleg back to the right.

I doubt that I'll be keeping this instrument, but - whether it's mine or someone's else - it will carry the "bloke did this" stamp...

also...no 5th valve is my decision. #1 pulls out PLENTY (this model) for "double low" E-flat, D (as is known) is 2-3-4, and - nearly unquestionably - various #1 slide positions will offer a nice double-low C-sharp, and (probably) a double-low C-natural as well. B-natural...?? (WGAS?)
2-4 B-natural/E-natural...?? The strategy is to tune #4 for those, and play C/F with 1-3.

bloke's case fetish (hard case, vs. padded bag)...
...I'm just about as excited at the possibility of this spare Jakob Winter 6/4 case as possibly/probably being able to be made to accommodate this instrument as anything else.

[bloke]

more...

I've looked back at ACTUALLY how many solder joints (so far) are holding the valveset to the bows...

...so far, only ONE contact solder joint (ie. no actual brace) and only a couple of brace feet...so NOW is the time to purdy-up the valveset alignment.

"Holton 345 o.e.m. builds"...and we Americans pooh-pooh early y2k Jinbao assembly....

[MiBrassFS]

"Holton 345 o.e.m. builds"...and we Americans pooh-pooh early y2k Jinbao assembly….

Batch built vs mass produced?

I’ll take any Holton over any JinBao everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

[bloke]

"Holton 345 o.e.m. builds"...and we Americans pooh-pooh early y2k Jinbao assembly….

Batch built vs mass produced?

I’ll take any Holton over any JinBao everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

I suspect the Holtons were built one-at-a-time and with fewer assembly jigs than would have been a great deal of assistance to those assigned to assembling them.

Yeah...Some of the Holtons were put together nicely (again: it seems to depend on who stuck them together), but others' assembly seems pretty comical. They're all fine, once taken apart and put back together nicely, or (in the case of this one in particular) swapping out a few parts to define nice assembly as something achievable...

...oh yeah...and then, there's all the homespun "repairs" - over the last half century.

[MiBrassFS]

They reportedly only built them when they had enough orders to build a batch of them. I suspect that the variation we see is a result of variations between batches (different helpers, workers, etc. involved/assigned). Some are more alike than others.

My point? What you have is worth more than any JinBaozer… to me.

[bloke]

Well duh. Especially after I have it all straightened out and slicked out. It's sort of like the value of a genuine 1963 split window Corvette versus the value of one of those kit bodies that you pop on to some other car's frame.

[bloke]

𝓓𝓮𝓪𝓻 𝓕𝓻𝓪𝓷𝓴,
𝓓𝓸𝓮𝓼 𝓻𝓮𝓹𝓵𝓪𝓬𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓲𝓵𝓵-𝓯𝓲𝓽𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓹𝓪𝓻𝓽𝓼 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓪𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽𝓮𝓷𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓸𝓾𝓽 𝓪 𝓗𝓸𝓵𝓽𝓸𝓷 𝓽𝓾𝓫𝓪 𝓿𝓸𝓲𝓭 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝔀𝓪𝓻𝓻𝓪𝓷𝓽𝔂?

[MiBrassFS]

When I see this comparison…

"Holton 345 o.e.m. builds"...and we Americans pooh-pooh early y2k Jinbao assembly….

That throws the brakes on. Apples to eggrolls.

‘Well, “Duh” indeed.’

[bloke]

planned tack:

replace the upper fourth branch circuit loop with a (considerably narrower hairpin) 8/10" bore 186 main slide bow (Miraphone bow-bending process precludes putting 9 or even 6 inches of tubing on either end, so/and...) I'll just solder it to a couple of pieces of c. 8/10" bore straight tubing. The short curved chunk (which inserts back into the #4 casing on the left/mouthpipe side of the instrument), I'll just alter it a bit, and silver braze and additional "tail" of tubing onto it, for better/easier insertion into that casing's ferrule.

Once that upper circuit is off to the right (closer to the cluster) the main slide dogleg will ALSO be bent back to the right, and the valveset will then align much more nicely with the expanding bows' general orientation.

bloke "Looks - more than anything else - sell tubas...particularly to mediocre players, such as myself."