TubaForum.net

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:31 am**

My Rudy 5/4 BBb Bayreuth was shipped along with a 6/4 BBb Silver from Germany to Lee Stofer, then in Atlanta, from where it was transshipped to me. Unfortunately Amtrak misrouted my tuba to California which was the 6/4's destination. After a significant delay my tuba eventually arrived. I was immediately impressed with the sound and the ease of play my Bayreuth afforded, basically not much different than the St. Pete 202N I was coming from. The appropriate combination of mouthpiece and embouchure made the tuba easy to play, and it wasn't an 'air hog'. Put an inappropriate mouthpiece on it, and it becomes much more difficult to wrangle. Embouchure efficiency is the key to playing and enjoying a tuba like mine. It's pictured to the right of my drum throne practice chair in my avatar.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am**

ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:34 am**

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.

I only remembered they were posted on Reverb, that led me to this:

https://reverb.com/item/37450791-melhar ... -4-cc-tuba

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:39 am**

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:46 am**

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.

Hm. I'm just wondering how big a tuba can be while still being practical to use. The Rudy 6/4 must be practical to use if Rudy will still produce it. Just wondering if anything bigger was ever in production, and what those horns sound like.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:46 am
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.
Hm. I'm just wondering how big a tuba can be while still being practical to use. The Rudy 6/4 must be practical to use if Rudy will still produce it. Just wondering if anything bigger was ever in production, and what those horns sound like.

The only really large tubas that I'm currently exploring are German kaiser b-tubas (BB-flat/tall/larger-than-5/4 size/extra-large bore/rotary valves/moderate-diameter bell opening) for orchestral use...because I've not gone down this PARTICULAR rabbit-hole before, so (well...) why not "look into" them...(??)
I've been through the C-length raincatcher lap-sousaphone thing (which has been the fashion in the USA for a few decades) and - every time I bought a different model of one of those - spent an inordinate portion of my practice time memorizing intonation quirks, working out slide-pulling choreography, and becoming "mentally strong" enough to deal with them (not the blowing into them, but the concentration required to - again - play them, while dealing with their model-specific left-hand choreography).
personal observation: Most of the C-versions ("for orchestra") - which feature two-feet short-circuited bugles, by necessity - seem to not be as resonant, and - though they do respond a bit faster than the not-as-common B-flat ones - all seem to require more effort (than B-flat ones) for the same output.

Were I an active *"indoor/concert" wind-band player, I'd already own an oversized "6/4" BB-flat...probably a good Holton 345...because they offer unlimited horsepower, PLUS (when played "normally") are intrinsically capable of sounding like string basses (as that is the role of a tuba in a wind-band)...but my gigs mostly occur with per-service orchestras, brass quintets, and jazz combos.

To address your post-specific inquiry, the really-gigantic (ex: "7/4" size) instruments that I've occasionally encountered all seem unfocused and woofy, unless offered a super-human level of embouchure vibration (ie. "signal") - at which point they sound sort-of like "normal" tubas.
_____________________________
*Were I hired by some wind-band which tended to sit and play OUTDOOR concerts, I'd own a vintage Besson 3+1 compensating BB-flat tuba with a 24-inch recording bell...AMAZING decibel capabilities, (though the main slide on them requires a long pull for A=440) remarkably easy to play in tune, and fully chromatic.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:46 am**

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:46 am
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.
Hm. I'm just wondering how big a tuba can be while still being practical to use. The Rudy 6/4 must be practical to use if Rudy will still produce it. Just wondering if anything bigger was ever in production, and what those horns sound like.
The only really large tubas that I'm currently exploring are German kaiser b-tubas (BB-flat/tall/larger-than-5/4 size/extra-large bore/rotary valves/moderate-diameter bell opening) for orchestral use...because I've not gone down this PARTICULAR rabbit-hole before, so (well...) why not "look into" them...(??)
I've been through the C-length raincatcher lap-sousaphone thing (which has been the fashion in the USA for a few decades) and - every time I bought a different model of one of those - spent an inordinate portion of my practice time memorizing intonation quirks, working out slide-pulling choreography, and becoming "mentally strong" enough to deal with them (not the blowing into them, but the concentration required to - again - play them, while dealing with their model-specific left-hand choreography).

Were I an active *"indoor/concert" wind-band player, I'd already own an oversized BB-flat...probably a good Holton 345...because they offer unlimited horsepower, PLUS (when played "normally") are intrinsically capable of sounding like string basses (as that is the role of a tuba in a wind-band)...but my gigs mostly occur with per-service orchestras, brass quintets, and jazz combos.

To address your post-specific inquiry, the really-gigantic (ex: "7/4" size) instruments that I've occasionally encountered all seem unfocused and woofy, unless offered a super-human level of vibration - at which point they sound sort-of like "normal" tubas.
_____________________________
*Were I hired by some wind-band which tended to sit and play OUTDOOR concerts, I'd own a vintage Besson 3+1 compensating BB-flat tuba with a 24-inch recording bell...AMAZING decibel capabilities, (though the main slide on them requires a long pull for A=440) remarkably easy to play in tune, and fully chromatic.

Kaisers are super interesting to me. My teacher uses one all the time, and it's sound is super unique. I always end up switching between C and Bb, due to what I own and what the high school I attend owns, and really have no preference between them.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am**

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:37 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:46 am
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:30 am ALMOST off-topic (but a response)...

The BMB B-flat is a somewhat-faithful Holton 345 copy, and (yes) the fact that the C-version is a copy of a cut-down may (??) have disappointed some potential consumers.
I've also seen a reissue (different brand name engraved on them) of the BMB's with some apparent upgrades. I didn't bookmark where I saw them, as I've no real interest in them.
Hm. I'm just wondering how big a tuba can be while still being practical to use. The Rudy 6/4 must be practical to use if Rudy will still produce it. Just wondering if anything bigger was ever in production, and what those horns sound like.
The only really large tubas that I'm currently exploring are German kaiser b-tubas (BB-flat/tall/larger-than-5/4 size/extra-large bore/rotary valves/moderate-diameter bell opening) for orchestral use...because I've not gone down this PARTICULAR rabbit-hole before, so (well...) why not "look into" them...(??)
I've been through the C-length raincatcher lap-sousaphone thing (which has been the fashion in the USA for a few decades) and - every time I bought a different model of one of those - spent an inordinate portion of my practice time memorizing intonation quirks, working out slide-pulling choreography, and becoming "mentally strong" enough to deal with them (not the blowing into them, but the concentration required to - again - play them, while dealing with their model-specific left-hand choreography).
personal observation: Most of the C-versions ("for orchestra") - which feature two-feet short-circuited bugles, by necessity - seem to not be as resonant, and - though they do respond a bit faster than the not-as-common B-flat ones - all seem to require more effort (than B-flat ones) for the same output.

Were I an active *"indoor/concert" wind-band player, I'd already own an oversized "6/4" BB-flat...probably a good Holton 345...because they offer unlimited horsepower, PLUS (when played "normally") are intrinsically capable of sounding like string basses (as that is the role of a tuba in a wind-band)...but my gigs mostly occur with per-service orchestras, brass quintets, and jazz combos.

To address your post-specific inquiry, the really-gigantic (ex: "7/4" size) instruments that I've occasionally encountered all seem unfocused and woofy, unless offered a super-human level of embouchure vibration (ie. "signal") - at which point they sound sort-of like "normal" tubas.
_____________________________
*Were I hired by some wind-band which tended to sit and play OUTDOOR concerts, I'd own a vintage Besson 3+1 compensating BB-flat tuba with a 24-inch recording bell...AMAZING decibel capabilities, (though the main slide on them requires a long pull for A=440) remarkably easy to play in tune, and fully chromatic.

But those Bessons play well??

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:57 am**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??

mostly unknown, mostly suffer from top-action / BB-flat / recording-bell biases, and epically underrated.

The "bad" ones are only those which feature significantly-worn valves...
...and/or those with their main slides not pulled out - nearly - to the brink.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??

Most definitely!

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:09 am**

With a 24" bell, that is a lap sousaphone if I ever saw one!!

(But I'd have a tuba tamer as well, it would not be in my lap)

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:14 am**

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:57 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??
mostly unknown, mostly suffer from top-action / BB-flat / recording-bell biases, and epically underrated.

The "bad" ones are only those which feature significantly-worn valves.

Where can I find one? Am going to sell my C tuba soon, since it has tuning issues, and it wants me to pull slides. If I wanted to pull slides I'd play trombone. So, it has to go. I am eyeing a Holton on Reverb from 1921 that is $300. Not sure how good it is, but maybe better than what I have.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:15 am**

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??
Most definitely!

Would definitely love to find and try one... COVID really needs to end soon.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:34 am**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:15 am
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??
Most definitely!
Would definitely love to find and try one.

The only stinko pitch with those, consistently - is E-flat in the staff (sharp, and "adding 4" does nothing to remedy it)...
...so it might be good to lap the 1st slide on one of those - (but probably only) for E-flat in the staff.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:52 pm**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:14 am ...and it wants me to pull slides. If I wanted to pull slides I'd play trombone.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:00 pm**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:14 am
bloke wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:57 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??
mostly unknown, mostly suffer from top-action / BB-flat / recording-bell biases, and epically underrated.

The "bad" ones are only those which feature significantly-worn valves.
Where can I find one? Am going to sell my C tuba soon, since it has tuning issues, and it wants me to pull slides. If I wanted to pull slides I'd play trombone. So, it has to go. I am eyeing a Holton on Reverb from 1921 that is $300. Not sure how good it is, but maybe better than what I have.

I’d hesitate to yield owning a 5 valve instrument for a 3 valve one.

Also, as an owner of a Besson 994, they do have good intonation and a nice sound, but I wouldn’t want it as an “all-around” tuba.

If you’re okay with rotary valves, I’d just hunt up a nice Mirafone/Miraphone 186 BBb and go from there. Great intonation in the bulk of the register and a bit more colorful sound.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:07 pm**

[/quote]

If I wanted to pull slides I'd play trombone.
[/quote]

Tony,
One of my college instructors used one of these, but in BBb with a double-wrapped slide. May be the answer for you!

: ContrabassTrombone.jpg (181.26 KiB) Viewed 1349 times

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:10 pm**

tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:15 am
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:51 am But those Bessons play well??
Most definitely!
Would definitely love to find and try one... COVID really needs to end soon.

Saw one on a large Craigslist search recently. But now it's gone. I used one at the second high school I attended back in the day for concert band and a small 7 piece swing band playing front line trombone parts and solos. They are huge and not ergonomically friendly but they sound great and play very easy and nimble. Just..big..and ugly.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:56 pm**

I could show up for some gigs (playing this-or-that CONTRABASS tuba) and NEVER move ANY slides...
...but I sorta like the money, the relative ease of the gigs (vs. digging 3'-deep trenches, or working in 110°F. white-bread or snack-cupcake factories in the summer) and also sorta like being asked back to play subsequent gigs.

Go listen to (SOME of the) decades-ago movie soundtracks and TV-show themes...Intonation standards (due to what is now possible ELECTRONICALLY, in recording studios) have risen ASTRONOMICALLY for LIVE music performances, since then.

Posted: **Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:21 pm**

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:10 pm
tobysima` wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:15 am
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:59 am

Most definitely!
Would definitely love to find and try one... COVID really needs to end soon.
Saw one on a large Craigslist search recently. But now it's gone. I used one at the second high school I attended back in the day for concert band and a small 7 piece swing band playing front line trombone parts and solos. They are huge and not ergonomically friendly but they sound great and play very easy and nimble. Just..big..and ugly.

Looks don't matter to me! As long as it isn't a burden to use and express myself with.

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