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From what I was taught in school, 6/4 glut can also be expressed as 1.5(glut), and - once you get that far with it - all you need to remember is the order of operations.

Inhale > spit > blow

"wind and slobber"

Mashing buttons is just something that people do to mystify the patrons, and strategically placed dents are installed in order to avoid bouncing the flood lights into the eyes of some of the higher contributing patrons.

Anyone who doesn't understand these things probably needs to change teachers, or - at the very least - graduate to the other forum.

... so there. I said what needs to be said.

I have strong feelings about this.

I'm an old undergrad, 23 years old. I'll probably be here for another minute as I studied another subject for 3 years before I found out I caught a disease that seems to be incurable that's music. I've seen the studio change, when I first came in in 2018 I was the only kid with a thor. Ended up all of the performance majors switched to Thors. "If it's not a thor, take it back to the store" we said. Legitimately more than 50% of the studio was on Thors. Nowadays all the freshmen seem to be on the large Eastman 6/4's. I think they play... alright. I was blessed enough in high school to have performed on Yorks and 6/4 Kanstul prototypes and Marzans and everything else. I don't think any of these newer horns have the feeling of a york. If you've ever played one, the lack of a pitch center. I think from the outside that looks like a set back, aside from glissing from Db to Gb, I think it's pretty cool. It opened up my ears as a high schooler, let me put air in the horn, etc.

I think the new 6/4's are very superficial though. The original 6/4's were an end game performance horn. They existed to create the ability for the tuba player to have the ability to overpower an orchestra or wind ensemble when needed. The new 6/4's have such a small bore that it's a totally different feel - a totally different sound. I feel like it's easier to get a bigger sound out of my 5/4 Thor (albeit a large 5/4) than the 6/4 Eastmans. I think that they are in general more of a look than of any utility that a 6/4 offers.

It's 3:22 in the morning so I'm sorry if I'm not making any sense. I don't feel like the 6/4's are being utilized correctly especially as people's first horns. I think they're cool, they're huge, but I think that they exist in a place that the original 6/4's didn't exist in. I think that's alright but I think advertising them as a york clone is far from the truth - and I don't think undergrads need a york clone.

zombie2u wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:24 am The new 6/4's have such a small bore that it's a totally different feel - a totally different sound.

All the York copies and the original York have a bore of around .748"-.750" if I'm not mistaken. The Eastman 4/4 horns have the smaller bore.

arpthark wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 5:17 am

zombie2u wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:24 am The new 6/4's have such a small bore that it's a totally different feel - a totally different sound.

All the York copies and the original York have a bore of around .748"-.750" if I'm not mistaken. The Eastman 4/4 horns have the smaller bore.

Yeah, bore is the same.

Maybe the Eastman version has a smaller leadpipe? My guess is that they are targeting the YamaYork as it evolves.

Almost any tuba can overpower an orchestra. The 6/4 breeds don’t offer a lot more wattage. They just offer more headroom before the sound gets harsh. On the flip side, they typically don’t offer as much of a tonal palette.

What was just claimed about tonal characteristics is absolutely true. I was playing a very legato bass line on a tune last night (with no rests) behind a rock band and a nearly completely mic'd orchestra, but I wasn't mic'd.

I was putting out nearly all the sound (volume-wise) I could put out, and it still wasn't harsh. Mostly, it sounded like a super-amplified string bass.

Plus, it was an E flat major, and that's like feeding chocolate cake to a B flat tuba.

if it's me to whom you refer...(??)

I went through a bunch of extra-large tubas in C...and a Holton in B-flat.

The C ones were all a bunch of work to play in tune - as well as too woofy...and the Holton (though the sound quality was better) was also too hard to play in tune (to me).

I did a ton of alteration to one of those in C (to get it to sound less woofy), but it was still a bunch of work to play it in tune.

This one (a B-flat) sounds more like that 5/4 C that I sold (not woofy) - as well as the Holton B-flat that I owned for a while (including when the not pushing it to the limit)...except that it's broader-sounding that that 5/4 C, and (unlike the Holton) really easy to play in tune.

I discovered this model a decade ago...but they were $12K or $13K. Currently, they cost the same (adjusted for inflation)...about $20K...I just don't have that budgeted for tubas, but I found this one (the only one I've ever seen for sale used) for less...so I figured out what I could sell in order to buy it.

Most people tell me that they're looking for "sound" or "the sound".
I like "great sound", and - to me - woofy ain't it...
...but #1 on my list is not "the sound", but- rather - it's "easy to play in tune".
If I find myself doing little (when playing a tuba at home) other than "trying to remind myself how to play it in tune", that's a non-starter. I've owned several like that, and they didn't stay around here very long.

I really like the sound of a big tuba that has some "fist" in the sound...
Some people use the word "core", but I'm not sure that I understand what that means, so I try to avoid it (as an adjective-ish noun, describing resonance).

great response!

.

Could you just post the picture, and not link to the site that (not in English) is asking the viewer of the site to agree to things?

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:48 pm Could you just post the picture, and not link to the site that (not in English) is asking the viewer of the site to agree to things?

That looks an awful lot like a tuba that was on the front of one of Custom Music's ancient brochures.

You win jobs on a 4/4 and 5/4 horns. When the job needs it, you purchase a 6/4 horn with the money you are making from winning your job on your 4/4-5/4 horn.

It seems like all the recent job wins have been on 6/4 CCs(?) I know it’s the players not the gear, but I think people hear with their eyes. You not only have to play with a big sound (which 4/4&5/4 are capable off) you have to play something that looks big.

Im not the worlds biggest fan of 6/4 York style CC tubas, but I sure do like looking at them.

I can't ~know~ this, but somehow I expect that the woodwind and string players on audition committees wouldn't necessarily choose the sonority of six-quarter C tubas over that of those that offer just a bit more highs in the sound. I have to suspect that those people on committees tend to defer to trombonists. (Again) I obviously can't know this, but I suspect that if a young Roger Bobo were to audition for some major orchestra in the United States today - and with the equipment that he used to audition for Los Angeles, the committee would raise their eyebrows - due to being impressed, but might not advance him. It might sound like I'm insulting six'quarter C tuba players, but what I'm about to say is just a matter of fact: When a bass instrument produces fewer highs in its resonance, it's more difficult to be able to ascertain whether it's absolutely in tune or not.

.

peterbas wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:08 pm If anybody wish to tell which is the original tuba model for this Schenkelaars tuba, much appreciated.

Somebody wrote, Schenkelaars rotary tuba (or parts of them) were made in Germany by Böhm & Meinl, Geretsried.

We like big BATs and we can not lie
You other players can't deny
That when a tubist shows up with a big gig bag
you want to take a look at that tag!
I mean the engraving, is it a York?
Does it have that Grand Rapids pork?
Or maybe it's a copy by the Swiss?
With a 'brunner you just can't miss.
I like that handmade Baer!
Those big valves take all my air!
Oh god, is that a Holton?
Let me tell you, that tone is golden!
Ohhh, let's cut it to C!
'cause that's the best key!
Add a fifth valve, flat whole step.
It will give it that extra pep.
Let's play 'the ride'
with grand orchestral pride.
It's low! Whoa!
Woodwinds gonna say "OH NO!"
I'm so tired of maestro
saying that he wants bass tuba.
Take the average concertgoer and ask them that,
It's gotta have that BLAT!
So tubists, tubists!
Is your horn a big BAT?
So go play it! Play it!
Play that giant tuba!
Baby got BAT!

I see Mix-A-Lot (Anthony Ray) around town in Seattle on occasion. Do much more of this and you might own him a royalty.