You folks couldn't have been more correct.

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bloke
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You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

Playing the live orchestra to film concert tonight along with the Disney movie, they did cheap out and they only gave the click track to the conductor.

Every time I've done one of these with video game music, all the principals got the click.

Just like the video game music concerts, the place was sold out. I don't know how many people that place holds, but I'm sure it was something like 2500 people.
H.L. Mencken wrote: Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.
It would have cost $20,000 less to do Mahler 2, which was rejected by the executive director and board (more musicians, but they had to pay Disney a fortune for this). They probably wouldn't have sold that out, though. After all, Disney movie background music is way better than Mahler.

You know, Mahler would be a whole lot easier with a click track.

I will say this though, and this is not a joke and this is not being sarcastic: The stuff that I had to play tonight was way more difficult - and with way more (and way more involved) tuba solos - than any licks in any Mahler symphony... and yes, I have spent serious time practicing/perfecting and have played the Scherzo in V.


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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by russiantuba »

I did one of these (Harry Potter 1st movie) with a top notch regional orchestra (the majority of the brass and winds are faculty at Cincinnati Conservatory). The conductor, who I thought was quite good, did not use a click track and none were provided to the members. Every single tempo change the low brass seemed to play.

2 sellout crowds in a building that does popular music concerts and broadway plays.

The music was hard, fun, and I told my wife I think I finally paid off this mute I got in undergrad with this performance.
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by LeMark »

i played a pixar concert and the full movie of Home alone. In both concerts only the conductor had a click and that was all we needed. Both were sell out concerts and a lot of fun.
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

The video game music concerts can be thrown together with only one rehearsal (and less stress), as the principals (including tuba) each have a bluetooth (or whatever) box and earbuds.

This movie required two rehearsals...and - yeah - the stuff was technically (so-called) "hard", but we had it ahead of time...and yes, Dr. Green, LOTS of mute stuff (but with the 19" bell Holton and the smaller-size metal H&B mute - which is such a fine mute - that stuff was actually fun.

orchestras, "non-profit", and all that jazz:
They MAKE a profit (ok...unless they are so very poorly run that they do not). It's just that the profit gets spent on a two or three people, and on stuff that the musicians (had they any say) would NEVER approve of spending it on those things. "Non-profit" is a gimmick, and those who run them are far more interested in their salaries (and their little parties and such) than the "cause".

Selling out a 2500-person hall (with 1/3rd of the tickets costing $150 and the rest costing $50 - even when the show costs $100K - makes a "profit"...even with providing meals to 1/3rd, paying the monstrous Disney royalties, and renting the hall.

something else:
Disney doesn't allow (contractually) rehearsals on the same day as the concert...so we had to go over there, do two extended rehearsals, stay overnight (except bloke, who only lives about 1:15 away, so I drove home late and fixed horns all day yesterday until time to get cleaned up and drive back).

the video game concerts:
typically 3:00 - 5:00 single run-through of the show (no chit-chat...straight through in real time), dinner break, play 7:30 show, go home.
Also...The music for the video game shows isn't available ahead of time, but - well... - the click track actually helps (a bunch) with the sight-reading.
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by Colby Fahrenbacher »

“Less stress” is a highly subjective experience for each player. I wouldn’t be very surprised if a lot of musicians found working with a conductor more natural (less stressful) than following a click track.

“Non-profits” are not a gimmick, you are confusing the literal definition with the legal definition. No one thinks that orchestras don’t need to make money, either through ticket sales, donations, etc. Orchestras have to pay their bills just like everyone else. What they don’t do is distribute their profits to private individuals (shareholders) and instead keep the funds within the organization. Whether you think that money is well spent is an opinion I am sure you feel strongly about but will never provide any legitimate evidence to support despite making broad claims.

It does amaze me that the same person that whines about orchestras “cutting services to fund a music academy” is also complaining about “having to make an extra trip for another service”. You are literally incapable of happiness and will complain about anything.

The video game music being available ahead of time strikes me as odd. Can you share more details about that? Organization that prepared the package concert? Where there local issues (I.e. music arrived the day of the concert).
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peterbas (Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:34 pm)
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

Yes, we even played the music which ran through the credits.
ALSO...the opening theme when the Disney castle-trademark appears.
I believe that ACTUALLY playing that Disney *trademark theme at the VERY beginning (though it's "whatever") wow'ed the crowd more than anything else, because they realized that..."They're (the orchestra is) ACTUALLY going to be up there playing - LIVE !"

Image

funny:
Some of the people up in the balcony are SO accustomed at walking out during the credits, that they did it at this live-to-film concert. :facepalm2: :teeth: :laugh:






*Image


tuba-related:
Yes, that's this.

Image
I was actually getting more of a "hollywood" type of sound out of this thing (with my "glovebox" mouthpiece that I've been using, just lately) than with a much larger tuba.
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

Here's the issue with ONLY the conductor having the click:

They can get behind - AND/OR the player's can end up not following the stick in the same way that the conductor is intending.
Also, you can't expect musicians to be watching a conduction 100% of the time when there are all sorts of traps in the music (sudden caesuras, time changes, shifting meters, wild fistfuls of notes, etc., etc...)

"yes, bloke, but professionals should be able to...blah-blah-blah, and all that jazz..."

We're talking two rehearsals, and barely more than two run-thoughs of over an hour and half of relentless technical/lyrical/sound-effects playing.

Predictably (and always at the very fastest tempi), the orchestra can end up behind the click, and with the conductor then rushing forward to catch up (which results in frantic playing).

It's not uncommon for movie score tempi to be well up in the 170's.

Rushing to catch up (at this speed, while executing gymnastic figures) ends up not coming off all that well.

again:
With all the principals ALSO having the click, there's NOT any sort of problem having to do with staying with the click, since 12 - 15 people will ALSO have the click, and all can serve as "mini-conductors" (via leading their sections in perfect sync with the click). It also prevents wasting a bunch of "You're REALLY going to have to watch me !!!" jazz, and - during limited rehearsal time - starting back over on a particular (again: typically very fast tempo) segment.

12 - 15 of these boxes and earbuds really don't cost all that much (particularly when the total production costs are right at $100K).
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by peterbas »

...
Last edited by peterbas on Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Colby Fahrenbacher (Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:39 pm)
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

peterbas wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:38 pm The click could also be given to the players that have tablets so they could follow in on their part.
Something you can't do with a piece of paper.
...a pretty good amateur attempt at a troll.

You deserve a C+
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by Colby Fahrenbacher »

peterbas wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 2:38 pm The click could also be given to the players that have tablets so they could follow in on their part.
Something you can't do with a piece of paper.
I know that forScore allows for audio playback to be synced with your PDF file (though I haven't played with it yet). I am guessing that forScore isn't advanced enough to perform a networked version of this (aka a group click track), but I'm not sure.

Do any of the other music reader software have something like this built in?
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Re: You folks couldn't have been more correct.

Post by bloke »

I would have been glad to use a tablet that had the ability to receive a network and a somehow synchronized click track, and certainly included (new-in-the-package) a wireless set of earbuds :thumbsup: , but no, I wouldn't buy that stuff at my own expense. Again: I'm already supplying (and maintaining) the $XX,XXX musical instrument rent-free to the orchestra. That's as much equipment (other than the routine costumes required) of which I feel I should be expected to donate use.

I have played with big bands and quasi orchestras that supplied tablets with music preloaded. I had to have someone show me how to use them, and I was careful to not mess around with them beyond what I was shown how to do (particularly since they were "Apple"). Again: Those were the property of the ensembles, just like any other written music which is expected to be read by musicians for hire. I felt a little uptight, candidly, because I was being so careful to not touch the screens in the wrong places.

Playing the background music to this movie, I felt much more comfortable with the bound book of pages (LOL... which seemed to be just about as thick as an etude book, but not really) that was put together for me by the orchestra's librarian, as that's the librarian's job, and supplying the music is the obligation of the orchestra. Because they are a professional librarian with librarian skills, musical skills, and intuition, they left blank pages in convenient spots and those sorts of things, and I never had to worry about touching a foot pedal incorrectly or touching a screen in the wrong place. I did have to remember to lick my fingers to flip pages (because I'm old, I work in the 3D world, and I have coarse, dry hands).

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, and maybe almost no one ever encounters any full-size actually printing-press-engraved music anymore (though I'm playing off such parts exclusively with two different orchestras - a week apart - in less than a month) but it's simply the most easy to read, and (for the 3rd or 4th time, restated...??) even if it's several decades old.

Hey: I even raise my eyebrows at some of these gadgety tools that other instrument repair people acquire and use, because the things that some of those tools supposedly do are things that I can do with my bare hands in less time than it takes to walk across the room and get that tool off the wall... much less the time that it took to earn the money to buy that tool and to have it shipped to me. I also need to keep reminding myself that I live in a time when people - now: even as old as over forty years of age - weren't required to memorize simple arithmetic computations when in grade school, because they were told to purchase graphing calculators.
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