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When I play on my Symphonie I get a lot of (condensed) water in my tuning slide. I don't know if it is my imagination but I have the feeling that it affects the slotting of the notes.
I would like to know if this is typical of a Symphonie or that it is just my playing skills, or could it be that it is a combination of the water and some of the dents in the tuning slide.

I have never experienced something like this on my Miraphone 188

Greetings from the Netherlands

C J wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:20 pm When I play on my Symphonie I get a lot of (condensed) water in my tuning slide. I don't know if it is my imagination but I have the feeling that it affects the slotting of the notes.
I would like to know if this is typical of a Symphonie or that it is just my playing skills, or could it be that it is a combination of the water and some of the dents in the tuning slide.

I have never experienced something like this on my Miraphone 188

Greetings from the Netherlands

I haven't experienced slotting or response issues on my Symphonie or any of the others I've played in the past because of condensation. Not being an expert designer/repair/craftsman guy, I can't say how much or how little that dents, nodes, water collection, rough edges, etc. actually affect slotting, although if the obstruction were large enough, that would seem to be a problem.

The Symphonie is not a completely unforgiving tuba (I think they are wonderful tubas), but it's not one in which I can feed it garbage and it still makes me sound great. The Symphonie does an excellent job of amplifying whatever I give it. If I'm playing efficiently, good buzz, been practicing, etc., I sound as good as I can sound on it. If what I am giving it is not very good, the tuba does not help me sound better than I really am. The 188 (I owned one for a number of years), however, is a bit more forgiving and can sound good with almost any input. Of course, the 188 is a contrabass tuba, and contrabass tubas tend to be easier and more forgiving than F tubas. My 188 locked in to pitches very well. The slots seemed to be very clearly defined. Generally speaking, F tuba is a different animal altogether.

So to answer the question directly...

The dents and water might have an effect. You can always fix the dents, and you can dump water more often. Your skills on the 188 may be excellent, but you still have to think the F tuba as if it were a completely different instrument since they don't always play or respond like a big tuba.

In golf terms...
- 188 is like the latest Calloway irons - easy for everyone to use, performs well in most situations, player-friendly, good for the masses and can still be used by professionals

- F tuba is like a set of blades - not really designed for the masses and rank amateurs, requires more from the player, but with a little extra time and attention, the results can be fantastic

Does it empty easily?

I owned mine for over three decades (and I'm SUPPOSED to notice crap like this ) before I released that the drilled hole had an epic (tall) burr on the inside, and almost none of the water was draining.

After I removed the burr, life was much easier, but the instrument played no better, as it has always played as if someone other than myself (ie. someone "good") was playing it.

Most of the time, the water would run back out the mouthpipe, or (frustrated) I would just pull the slide and dump it.

bloke "...but I'm really a textbook example of the 'cobbler's children's shoes' syndrome...Though I DO keep them clean inside, otherwise, my own instruments receive attention only when they absolutely MUST receive it...I suppose, because there is no one who will pay me to repair them. Currently, I have a piece of wire propping a worn rotor bumper out to proper alignment, and I just played a movement of a tuba concerto (two concerts) with it that way. "

To state the obvious; German style rotary tubas are made in such a way that almost all the the slides empty directly towards the main tuning slide. For the F Symphony that means that the waterworks for all valves, with the exception of the 4th, run out into the main.

Living in a cold country I see this as a design advantage: I only have to empty one spit valve as opposed to pulling all slides separately plus twisting and turning the tuba to empty it. An if I have an irritating condense build up whilst playing I can empty this on the fly.

pjv wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:53 pm To state the obvious; German style rotary tubas are made in such a way that almost all the the slides empty directly towards the main tuning slide. For the F Symphony that means that the waterworks for all valves, with the exception of the 4th, run out into the main.

Living in a cold country I see this as a design advantage: I only have to empty one spit valve as opposed to pulling all slides separately plus twisting and turning the tuba to empty it. An if I have an irritating condense build up whilst playing I can empty this on the fly.

Years ago, I harvested a matching water key from a "Weltklang" BB-flat, and put it in the bottom of the 4th circuit tubing. As a bonus, its saddle features a flange (which minimizes tubing denting, if struck).

Now, some "every little thing epically affects the way a tuba plays" person is going to ask me about the "low C" response, after I installed that water key.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:52 pm Does it empty easily?

I owned mine for over three decades (and I'm SUPPOSED to notice crap like this ) before I released that the drilled hole had an epic (tall) burr on the inside, and almost none of the water was draining.

After I removed the burr, life was much easier, but the instrument played no better, as it has always played as if someone other than myself (ie. someone "good") was playing it.

Most of the time, the water would run back out the mouthpipe, or (frustrated) I would just pull the slide and dump it.

Thank you Bloke, it doesn't empty easy. I have a ugly spot on the kranz from the water running back ( it was there when I bought it) and I do also pull the slide to dump it.

@ Doc, I experienced difficult slotting of notes when I had the tuba the first days. This was mainly due to the mouthpiece I used at that time (the same as on the Mira)
After I got my current mouthpiece for the f tuba it slots really easy. Only after I have a build up of water the problems occur.
As Bloke suggested I will look into the water release hole,

Greetings

C J wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:11 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:52 pm Does it empty easily?

I owned mine for over three decades (and I'm SUPPOSED to notice crap like this ) before I released that the drilled hole had an epic (tall) burr on the inside, and almost none of the water was draining.

After I removed the burr, life was much easier, but the instrument played no better, as it has always played as if someone other than myself (ie. someone "good") was playing it.

Most of the time, the water would run back out the mouthpipe, or (frustrated) I would just pull the slide and dump it.

Thank you Bloke, it doesn't empty easy. I have a ugly spot on the kranz from the water running back ( it was there when I bought it) and I do also pull the slide to dump it.

@ Doc, I experienced difficult slotting of notes when I had the tuba the first days. This was mainly due to the mouthpiece I used at that time (the same as on the Mira)
After I got my current mouthpiece for the f tuba it slots really easy. Only after I have a build up of water the problems occur.
As Bloke suggested I will look into the water release hole,

Greetings

If the water key itself might have some sort of obstruction that doesn't allow the water to completely drain, I can see how that could be a problem.

Have you tried dumping the bottom bow out the bell?
Playing nonstop in cooler or cold locations on my 26K (Eb sousaphone)
I can feel a response change and hear tone change on C below the staff
at about two table spoons [29.5735 mL] in the bottom branch.

Joe "contemplating a mohawk and hyper hydration syndrome" H

My Symphonie's water hole seems to my naked eye to be smaller in diameter than that of my other tuba's. Theoretically you should only have to open it and position the tuba so that it leaks out all on it's own, moving the tuba around a bit until you see it starts to run. If it doesn't leak out the way it does on other horns then maybe there is something wrong.

Furthermore, check the cork on the water key if it's sealing properly.

En ook de groete uit Nederland. Als je ooit in Utrecht ben zou je altijd mijn B&S kunnen uitproberen naast de jouwe, als je denkt dat dit helpt.

Gr. Pat

Mr. Bloke was spot on, the was a burr on the inside of the tuning slide. I have taken a file to remove it and now it drains a lot better.

C J wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:54 am Mr. Bloke was spot on, the was a burr on the inside of the tuning slide. I have taken a file to remove it and now it drains a lot better.

For future reference....when I got my NStar the spit valve on the tuning slide had been removed. I put a Joy Key on there and it worked great; I had to empty it once per playing session (never figured out why) and it just dripped from then on. (Joy keys drip but there is no water accumulation.)