TubaForum.net

Since I redid my 340 (valve stems, buttons, a few dents, etc.) and it’s playing even better, I took it over to my friend with the 345 that now has all its slides in place and played a bit.

Mouthpiece used?

Blokepiece Imperial with a 32.6 #2 rim and an American shank.

I grabbed it as a “cheat” (because me no practice much…), but I think it’s now the match for that tuba. Recommended.

(Even though I still might like to try that other rim, @bloke…)

Something Tommy Johnson was known to say:

Small Tuba-use a big mouthpiece

Big tuba-use a small mouthpiece

I use the original "blokepiece" on my 345. It was simply marked "SOLO" and is a single piece of SS. I have a three-piece Solo that Joe, Dave, and I sussed out over a few phone calls, and it is not the same. The original specs were lost or misplaced, so a matching three-piece version cannot be assembled over the phone. If I want a copy in the modern format I would have to send it in for measuring.

I might do that one day, as it is a great match for this tuba; my three-piece Solo is not as good a choice, though it works pretty well. I like the first-batch, one-piece Solo and will likely continue to use it in the 345 for years. Everything about it is slightly larger than the three-piece solo, which makes me think it may be closer to your Imperial. I suppose I need to get one of them to trial in the Holton.

It's funny, but the Holton likes smaller mouthpieces, whereas the YamaYork (for me) prefers large ones. I had been using a Warburton TG1L in the 826. Currently, I use a Miraphone Rose Orchestra in the Yamaha (and a Miraphone Rose Solo in the Kurath—yet another example of a very large tuba being happier with a small mouthpiece).

The Rose Solo and the blokepiece Solo are pretty similar in the cups (save for that reverse taper backbone thingy) so I intend to try the small Miraphone piece in the Holton at some point, just for fun.

Also of note, the Rose Orchestra is deeper than any of my Helleberg varieties, though slightly narrower and with that funny rim that works well but looks a little weird to me. In my revisiting this very old friend I have noted that it is more similar to a Bach 24AW than it is dissimilar. I hate the 24AW, and that is mostly due to how "loose" it feels to me, and I detest the rim. I am wondering whether the Rose Orchestra started life as a 24AW and Bill Rose asked them to tighten the throat and modify the W rim to be sharper on the inside edge. Who knows?

I have noted that it is about the same cup depth and "feel" (again, to me) as my Sellmansberger Symphony. I used the Rose Orchestra for years, and it was actually my very first tuba mouthpiece. I used it on (wait for it…) 186 BBb tubas in HS, Junior College, and the US Army.

I love the Symphony on my 186 CC today, so I think I will try the new Rose Orchestra on that tuba soon to see how it plays in comparison to the Symphony on that tuba. I think the Symphony may be very similar to the Rose Orchestra but with a wider rim and the reverse taper throat.

Fun stuff to tinker with; interesting things to ponder…

[The two Rose mouthpieces are the first I ever owned, purchased in 1979. I never really liked or used the Solo, and I used the Orchestra from late in the 9th grade up through my Army band years (1979-1988) when I switched to my first Conn Helleberg. Coming back to them decades later is something I never suspected would happen, yet here we are…]

There might be something to that statement. I have a York that is the biggest tuba at TC every year. If someone want to dispute my claim, I hand them my mouthpiece and say "Stick this in your tuba." The shank is bigger than a Kaiser shank. It will not go into their receiver. But the cup is the shallowest that I have. It's barely and inch in depth. Definitely in the no diving end of the pool. (Old swimming instructor). I have been complimented on my sound many times. (Not my Playing though).

Too many toys for my House. Luckily my last kid is moving out. More room!

CCC

Just as a side note, I have one of TJ’s mouthpieces. Not a “TJ” model, but one of his mouthpieces. Zig and Jim New made 6 of them for him. (Zig told me I had the second to last one.) His “small mouthpiece” wasn’t exactly what most people associate with that description. His pieces were maybe more shallow than actually “small.” They were pretty big.

Imperial is sort of medium deep. It can become "regular deep" (such as approximately Helleberg-deep or Geib-deep) with the insertable ring or a tall rim.
Regardless of which of those two depths, that mouthpiece offers a lot of front. With a tall rim, I think it actually has more cup volume than Symphony or Orchestra Grand , as the tall rim is pretty much cylindrical - rather than tapered inward.
I like using Imperial with a sousaphone and I like using it in indoor jazz combos with my recording bell compensating E-flat. I also stick it in my F tuba when I want it to sound more like those more bland-sounding F tubas that seem to be popular. An example of this is when a quintet is asked to play a bunch of music which is typically played by a large ensemble, such as at a wedding, commencement, or funeral.

Not mentioned above in previous responses, but some people put tall rims or insertion rings with the Solo cup. I've even had people tell me that they've put both of those on that cup. I've not done that myself. I mentioned in another thread that I'm working on a (new) regular deep bowl cup mouthpiece, and will probably have some run off as soon as this week, if I can get it scheduled. (Truth be told, it's a bowl shape that I've kept close to the shape of the OG cup, yet more of a bowl. I'm also experimenting with a more severe drop off on the outside edge of the #2 rim with this mouthpiece.) I suppose it's roughly the size of a Bach 7, but I don't like the Bach 7 mouthpiece very much at all.

I have one of those tall rims I bought it to try and never did. One of these days…

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:57 am I have one of those tall rims I bought it to try and never did. One of these days…

related, but not a direct response...
You're pretty good at keeping pics of yourself off the web, but I seem to recall (years ago) that you revealed to me that (like me) your bottom-of-nose cartilage is pretty close to the opening of your lips (ie. short space between nose and where the lips meet)...thus the original development of the extra-narrow rim with the fall-off.

OK...(particularly with instruments with more resistance), I can manage to get a crazy-low (below the piano keyboard) F out of all of my tubas, but the more "open" they play (particularly the Miraphone 98), the more I need to have been recently practicing (a good bit) to get that pitch to come out...
...not that I need that pitch (nor even the B-flat above it, etc...) but it seems like a good thing to be able to play really low (as messing around in the range just makes actually-written pitches - such as D and maybe a very rare C, etc. - more secure and quick to respond).

ANYWAY...when I'm producing pitches in that extra-extremely low range (whereby teeth and lips are the most separated), even the thin and fall-off-outer-edge rim is mashing up against my nose cartilage pretty hard. ...WERE that range important, I might (??) actually consider a cutaway on the rim...

...but no. It's not important enough to cut away a rim (to accommodate septal cartilage)...and I'm not willing to do the tongue-lip stunt.

With really wide rims or really large diameter rims, they hit my nose before they comfortably settle in, if that makes sense. One of the nice things about the #2 rim is that the profile falls away in addition to it being somewhat narrow. Those two features allow it to not needlessly take up any extra real estate. To me, the original Geib mouthpieces are similar in those respects.

345’s and similar are Euro size, are they not? I’m playing around with an Orchestra Grand, a Symphony, and a Parker Hitz right now. I have an Imperial, but only have the small shank. I’ll need to procure a larger size at some point…

Sousaswag wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:02 pm 345’s and similar are Euro size, are they not? I’m playing around with an Orchestra Grand, a Symphony, and a Parker Hitz right now. I have an Imperial, but only have the small shank. I’ll need to procure a larger size at some point…

yeah...OEM 345 receivers are right at (what has since been labeled as) "euro" - on the nose.

I landed on the Laskey 32H US for my Holton.

Sousaswag wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:02 pm 345’s and similar are Euro size, are they not? I’m playing around with an Orchestra Grand, a Symphony, and a Parker Hitz right now. I have an Imperial, but only have the small shank. I’ll need to procure a larger size at some point…

If you have the calipers, you might take measurements and see what you really have. When I did this, the only real American I remember in the bunch was Marcinkiewicz.

The ‘Murican shank on the Imperial just fit. I did try a Euro adapter, but I liked how it played a bit better w/o it. Houser’s American shank is on the ever-so-slightly larger side of the description.

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:59 am The ‘Murican shank on the Imperial just fit. I did try a Euro adapter, but I liked how it played a bit better w/o it. Houser’s American shank is on the ever-so-slightly larger side of the description.

As is the British £ shank. Wish it seated just a tiny bit further in on my Besson, which is already a bit flat-natured.

arpthark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:03 am

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:59 am The ‘Murican shank on the Imperial just fit. I did try a Euro adapter, but I liked how it played a bit better w/o it. Houser’s American shank is on the ever-so-slightly larger side of the description.

As is the British £ shank. Wish it seated just a tiny bit further in on my Besson, which is already a bit flat-natured.

I have a Solo £ shank and have used it in both small shank Eb receivers and American receivers. I like the response it gives on a Besson 983 for example.

I used to keep one smallish and one larger MP for most my horns.
My preferences have changed over time, though.

It took me a while to get used to a 9.5 mm bore / 35 mm rim self- customized (ugly, crude, straight-conical bowl and cylindrical bore) piece.
Back then, the PT50+ was my go-to piece on my B&S 4097 and that larger one served on special occasions.

Over time, that huge MP has become my go-to size for the Willson BBb, and I invested $$$ in a "nice" stainless-steel version with normal bore-, rim- and bowl shapes, but the same large size.
Band directors who call me to enhance their tuba section specifically ask for that combination of equipment.

On the smaller horns in both BBb and F I prefer Bloke´s products, which serve me very well.
The sound I produce with these is not what I´m getting called for: these are for my own enjoyment, which they amply provide.
On those, I much prefer smaller-MP-characteristics.