Mouthpiece for my Eb

[claf]

Hello,

After recently acquiring an Eb tuba, I'm searching for a mouthpiece to pair with it.
The mouthpiece that came with it is a no-brand / "181" marked / uncomfortable rim / out-of-round shank that has the advantage of fitting the instrument well.

I took measurements:
- outer diameter: 1.819 / 46.2mm
- inner diameter: 1.185 / 30.1mm
- end outer diameter of the shank: 0.531 / 13.5mm
- receiver diameter: 0.559 / 14.2mm

Cup-wise, it seems to be in the DW 5 range, I'll try something larger than that (like a 4).

But my biggest interrogation is on the shank.
According to this post, it is an European Shank (which seems to be right considering it was probably made by Boosey & Hawkes around 1980) and that I should look at JK Exclusive and Perantucci mouthpieces.
However, on Perantucci website they indicate they provide shanks for 15.2mm and 14.8mm receivers.
JK seem to provide mouthpieces in the Exclusive line for 13.5mm shanks (hopefully they talk about shank end diameter and not receiver diameter).

Any insights?

And last question: any recommendation for a model in these brands for an all-around Eb mouthpiece?

[donn]

I guess "European shank" in some is a useful dimension, but personally I'd ignore that. As you saw on J F Klier's site, 13.5 is their standard size (the optional small 12.5 is a real small shank that has presumably become extinct in modern instruments), and my ordinary old Schilkes etc. appear to me to be .530 at the end.

If that mouthpiece goes a reasonable way into the receiver, and not all the way, then you can probably do fine with any ordinary mouthpiece. (Not a Denis Wick 4 - if you want that cup, get 4L.)

About the JK Exclusive mouthpieces: they have come up with a "Classic" variation that seems to have a little more conical interior than the ones that don't bear that name, and some online retailers may be confused about what they have on the shelf. Both are good, but they aren't really the same.

[iiipopes]

Two mouthpieces that are routinely recommended for Eb are either a Bach 24AW or a Wick 3. I now play a K&G. Their #5F is similar to both the Wick 3L and the Bach 24AW. I play their 3F on my BBb, and it is the best mouthpiece I have ever played in five decades of playing tuba/sousaphone, and playing, trying, and owning dozens and dozens of mouthpieces, including many popular mouthpieces on this forum. As Donn states, JK have two series, and they are different. I do play a JK Classic on my Conn 36K, and it does well outdoors: good tone, intonation, and projection. I found the JK Exclusive a little difficult to keep centered without cracking. I have fallen out of favor with Bob Tucci's mouthpieces. I have tried every mouthpiece in my preferred cup size in all series: both "American" and "European" style cups, and both beforehand when he was still a partner with Dan Perantoni, and afterwards with his own company, and even a couple that were made later and marketed by Custom Music under the Perantucci brand. I can't find one that does what I want it to do. As always, your mileage may vary.

[arpthark]

If your current mouthpiece is a bit too small, the most cost-effective and readily available option for small British shank B&Hs would probably be a Wick 4 or Wick 3. I think of the 3 as the best middle-of-the-road option in that lineup.

If you'd like to drop a bit more cash down the road, the Sellmansberger Imperial with the "£" shank might be an option. You can get your choice of rim diameter and height to suit your preference. It's my favorite thing for my Besson 3+1 compensator, which is likely very similar to your B&H.

[donn]

If you'd like to drop a bit more cash down the road, the Sellmansberger Imperial with the "£" shank might be an option.

What diameter is that? As I read it, the existing mouthpiece that fits, is a little over .530, which is supposedly "European" shank.

[iiipopes]

If you'd like to drop a bit more cash down the road, the Sellmansberger Imperial with the "£" shank might be an option.

What diameter is that? As I read it, the existing mouthpiece that fits, is a little over .530, which is supposedly "European" shank.

OK. Let's clear up the nomenclature. On the other forum Matt Walters of Dillon Music posted a great thread about different tuba mouthpiece shank tip diameters. Link: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?t=10390

To summarize the tip diameters:
Old UK .490 (Wick No Letter)
Std. American .520
European .530
And others, including Alex, larger than that.

Since the posting of that thread (2005) some manufacturers have offered mouthpieces in an in-between shank size of .525 as a "universal fit" to varying success. Bottom line recommended course of action: when you see a mouthpiece you like, first email the company and ask if the mouthpiece will fit your receiver. As a guide to tuba mouthpiece fit in the receiver, whatever the tip diameter or receiver orientation, most tuba mouthpieces are designed to insert about 7/8 inch or 2 centimeters to one inch or 2.5 centimeters into the receiver without bottoming out on the leadpipe or wobbling.

[claf]

Ok, so far the choice seem to be either a Denis Wick 3L or a JK Exclusive 6.
For those who know the JK, how would you describe the difference between the standard and the classic?
And should I aim for a 6B or 6C?

[donn]

OK, let's clear up the BS. American manufacturers like Conn and Schilke have routinely made .530 shank diameters for years.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I've reported this multiple times, and no one has ever come back with measurements that differ. Others, for example Marcinkiewicz, make them smaller, and maybe that means only they are making true American Shanks, but if Conn and Schilke have been making "Euro" mouthpieces for generations, I think maybe the concept needs a little refinement.

[donn]

For those who know the JK, how would you describe the difference between the standard and the classic?

Well, the Classic is more conical, but of course this parameter going to be independent of the width, depth and throat diameter. i will say that I like the non-Classic better on my Eb tuba, but then my Classic is 4AA and the non-Classic is 5A, so it isn't an honest comparison.

[iiipopes]

Ok, so far the choice seem to be either a Denis Wick 3L or a JK Exclusive 6.
For those who know the JK, how would you describe the difference between the standard and the classic?
And should I aim for a 6B or 6C?

For me, the Classic has a little bit smoother tone than the Executive and slots and responds a little easier. As far as which model, the deeper cup 6B will give a slightly deeper tone and the slightly larger throat will allow a player to put a little more air through the horn. The 8.2 mm throat of the JK B cup series is the same as the very common .323 inches or "P" machinist's drill bit that is used on a large number of different mouthpieces and provides a good balance for most players.

[je]

Ok, so far the choice seem to be either a Denis Wick 3L or a JK Exclusive 6.

For what it's worth, when I was testing mouthpieces on my Eb tuba, the 3L was terrible (weird uneven resonance), though the 2L was acceptable, and the 3SL was good.

You also mentioned the 24AW, which I didn't care for mainly due to the wide rim. Best were the Sellmansberger Imperial,
RT-64, and RT-65.

[claf]

Thank you for all the answers.

For a first mouthpiece I'll go for a cheap option, already spent too much on trumpet (also on trombone, but less) mouthpieces safari

I ordered a DW 3L and I'll give it a try.