TubaForum.net

Hi,
I’ve considered looking into purchasing a five-valve (3+2) euphonium (just for the heck of it) but I was wondering if these are available for sale from time to time. I’m specifically considering the late 19th/early 20th century, like a Boosey, Beuscher, etc. Not ready to take the leap yet just because that’s a conversation to be had with the wife at the right time, but I’d just like to know for now.

As I say in the subject, I do not mean a double bell. I already have one (1906 Conn) and that is my primary horn. Something in this vein: https://the-brass-shop.com/persy-bruxel ... um-2-e749/

Thanks,
Brian

Not common at all, which is a shame. I made my own out of a king 2280, it's great.

Curious what you can do with one of those that you can't do with a standard four valve compensator -- my old Sterling plays well in tune over its whole range and has a very accessible pedal octave. So, ??? Just because it's different?

1. I've never Iiked the 3+1 system. As a tuba player, 4+1 is more natural
2. Less stuffy in the low register. For a 4 valve compensating instrument, every time you use the 4th valve, the air takes another trip through the valves.

Not necessarily for the topic starter, but just some more info on 5 valve euphoniums
Adams made a prototype a few years ago, don't know if they actually started making it, but if you pay them enough they probably will

There is a video about it on YouTube:


I have seen the 5 valve Persy for sale as well, he has a few if I am not mistaken.

I just don't know how much money that I would (personally) spend on a Mahillon-esque (yes...there's some other brand name on it) baritone/euphonium/single-B-flat tuba thingie. About the only thing I've played - out of that part of the world - that I thought was something useful (OK: "to me") is the BB-flat (large 4/4 body, very small 5/8" bore) model of tuba that Howard Johnson made famous in the USA...but (as always) to each his own.

I think Lätzsch in Bemen made one some 15 years ago, saw once a picture. Its with rotary valves. Never had a chance to try it, though.

And the Mirafon bb Kaiser baritone with 5 rotaries is still in production, see here https://www.miraphone.de/bb-kaiser-baritone.html

I would love to try it

And the Alexander model 151 5 valve bb baritone tuba here is in production. https://gebr-alexander.de/en/products/b ... modell-151

Kaiser bariton or baritone tuba, well tomatoes tomatoes, its the German name for an euphonium. The American or British baritone are considerably smaller in bore and bell, don't mix these up.

I have a Hirsbrunner 3 valve compensated baritone, which is a very nice euphonium size thing using large bore mouthpieces.

Or buy this one viewtopic.php?t=10959 order the 5th valve from Alexander and slap it on. ....

marccromme wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 3:05 pm Or buy this one viewtopic.php?t=10959 order the 5th valve from Alexander and slap it on. ....

I think @Mary Ann snatched that one up.

BramJ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:03 am Not necessarily for the topic starter, but just some more info on 5 valve euphoniums
Adams made a prototype a few years ago, don't know if they actually started making it, but if you pay them enough they probably will

There is a video about it on YouTube:


I have seen the 5 valve Persy for sale as well, he has a few if I am not mistaken.

my only issue with this experiment is, as a Trombone player, Matt chose to have the 5th valve set up the same as the 2nd valve on a bass trombone, which is a 2 step drop. As a tuba player I set mine up as a long whole step, which as far as I know has become a universal standard. Maybe Adams will offer them both ways. I'm kicking myself that I didn't ask Miel if he brought one of those to TMEA

Either way, Matt is right. After playing the low range on a non compensating euph, I wouldn't want to go back to the stuffy low range of a compensating instrument. I've sold both of my compensating euphs after building my king, including a 1 of 4 ever built short action model.

Somme observational comments: With my experience with bass tubas, so far, fifth valves make the pedal octave more stuffy, not less. My 183 has a considerably more accessible pedal octave than my 283. The Hagen four valve is equally accessible, bit it also appears that I am far more likely to use false tones than most others. I do that because it is easier for me to get the tone I want using the false tone range than it is with a bunch of valve tubing complicating the air flow. YMMV, and I think physical size is a factor there. The contrabass player who sits next to me in the brass band is a big tuba-sized guy, and when I had him try the NStar, he just walloped his way through the pedal range with all five valves down for low E. I cannot do that with my size and air capacity.

Second, I don't see my compensator as stuffy when the 4th valve is in use, but it did require a bit of technique development, although nothing along the line of a rotary F tuba. I didn't like the low range on my 2280 because it did not slot well down there, although it did feel quite open.

Third, I can't imagine that putting a 5th valve on the Alex 151 (which I did grab) would improve the pedal octave, given how stuffy it is with four valves, and its strong comparison in playing characteristics to rotary bass tubas. Just because they make one available doesn't mean it will improve the instrument.

When I was pining away wanting my NStar back, I tried to buy a four valver from Europe but they refused to sell across the pond. Not only that but my friend who plays an NStar practically shrieked at me that it would be impossible to resell with only four valves (to which I responded that I didn't care because it is going in the coffin with me.) And -- I do not use the 5th valve on the NStar, finding the false tone to be more usable even if it is not in the same playability class as the one on the 183. I actually think I would prefer a four valve NStar if I had the chance to get one, because based on experience it would be less stuffy and require less force to get the pedal octave notes.

2 observations. My 12345 pedal E on my Northstar feels as clean and easy as the higher octave using 2-4.

I had a rotor miraphone Euph. The low range was a slog with even 4 valves. I removed the 4th valve and put it on my 2280, patched the miraphone with a pipe that covered the area that removed from and sold it for more than I paid for it

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have no experience with a five-valve euphonium but the 3+2 configuration has always looked interesting. My Conn double bell is a 4+1 (the four main valves are pointing up, not out) and I've always been interested in seeing what a five-valve can do.

My experience with 5 valve Eb bass tuba is pretty much the oppsite than Mary Ann.

I play a MW 5+0 frontaction piston Eb tuba, where the 5th valve circuit is rotary, and the largest in diameter.

I never use false tones, the correct fingering (involving a 4th slide pull for F) speaks in all cases better, and sound nicer.

I most often prefer 2+3+5 over 4+1 plus 4th slide pull, they sound equally good, but no slide pull is preferred.

There is nothing stuffy about pedals at all, pedal Eb to C is very easy, pedal B natural, Bb and Ab with 2+3+5, 4 and 4+5 are quite managable.

I think Mary Anns experience might be explained with NS 5th valve being placed on top, and with the smaller tube diameter?

The ND has the best 5th register and response of any tuba I've ever played

Does one of mine count?





I really needed the 5th valve - a couple of years ago - to play the high C-sharp in "Mars".

bloke "...yeah...The 3+1 compensating system - for tubas - sucks...None of those British brass band tuba players are any good, and it's due to their tubas...NOT!, NOT!, and NOT!"