TubaForum.net

On social media, I’ve been seeing an alarming amount of the following for auditions of high school aged players:

1. Excerpts that are primarily for bass tuba (Meistersinger, Berlioz, Mahler 1)

2. Fountains (which almost never gets programmed in reality)

3. Concerto excerpts that are mainly for bass tuba

Then in reality, the normal constraints apply to the actual performed repertoire of the large ensemble.

Are the committees actually getting the best player for the group? It seems like there’s a lot of focus on high register and the lower octave of E major as opposed to listening to good sound and intonation in excerpts that reflect the literature that will be programmed.

IMO, most of these auditions could be settled with scales and a few Arban’s exercises. Maybe a Rochut if you want.

When I auditioned for a Youth Symphony the excerpts were always Fountains, Ride of the Valkyrie, and Hungarian March. All very hard excepts that require a very large range. When I actually made one of these Ochestras, I found out the sobering reality of most orchestral tuba playing.

I always like how All State Worked. They would pick a lyrical and a technical etude from one of the well known etude book.

Not knowing specifically what auditions you're referring to, I'll spout off anyway...

In every industry I've ever been in, there is a always a sense of "Well, if I do it this way, and it doesn't work, at least I did it The Right Way." I think a lot of audition lists fall into that. Hence, the "standard" rep showing up in inappropriate places. I notice that in auditions for other instruments, while there are excerpts involved, there is more of a focus on solo repertoire. And I've noticed in

The excerpt heavy format for auditions also produces a mindset and auditionees focused on playing the excerpts well, regardless of whether they are well-rounded players. I.e., people who can play a few parts of Prokofiev 5 but can't do the rest of it, never mind Snedecore #3.

To OP's point - Someone who could credibly play a Rochut in 3 octaves would probably do better on average during an orchestra's season than someone who can play 4 or 5 excerpts How They Should Be Played At Auditions (which may not be How The Conductor Wants Them Done At A Performance).

Given that simply doing etudes may find you someone who is a proficient player but not in the group setting, I think there is call for some excerpts to determine whether the person can lay a good foundation. But (again - TO ME), that should be the final round. Get the best players. Then decide who performs that function the best.

But again. I'm just sitting here pontificating in my home office avoiding work. So. Don't put too much weight in my opinion.

Your post makes sense.
For a youth orchestra, I see the Meistersinger soli passage, the first passage from Prokofiev 5, a vocalise, and a Tyrell exercise as sufficient, along with some not-too-difficult sight-reading.
...and everything I mentioned above is still quite a bit...
...but all of that (with only a phrase or two from each of the exercises) would not be a time-consuming (yet plenty revealing) audition...
...and yeah: would demonstrate command – or not – of a three octave range.

I'd rather listen to kids play a two octave range well, judging on execution and tone,

Instead of listen to a bunch of kids play three octaves poorly until just and handful appear that can.

I think they probably are choosing things that are "harder" or "more extreme" (or whatever) pieces, so that it raises the bar higher and can really do a better job to identify the top top top players more quickly.

Besides, these are the same crappy pieces we have to play on auditions for the rest of our lives. Start them early!

Side note: I would not want to be a judge for these auditions. I'd never stop singing the lyrics to that Fountains excerpt in my head: I can't -- play low -- I can't -- play low -- ...

When mentioning Fountains, I am a bit suspect of the judging of this excerpt for the reasons noted above.

A lot of people plow through those low Es, lose time, and hack the technical riff to pieces. It’s so rarely played in ensemble and a lot of people s miss the notion that it’s a waltz at its heart.

Working up Meistersinger to meet what is the apparent de facto norm for auditions is way different than playing it in the orchestra. It’s mainly riding cruise control with the bass section tutti.

Regardless, it’s all a start departure from when I auditioned into a (good*) youth orchestra as a high schooler which was a couple of etudes and some sight reading. I think quality of sound and solid intonation are being skipped over for (unneeded) pyrotechnics in some cases.

But sure, get them used to what a typical audition might be like. There is some educational value in that as well. Playing pieces you might see once in a career.

*The principal trumpet player from my youth orchestra is the principal trumpet player in the LA Philharmonic.

I've always thought that auditions should be based on how well the person performs in the group, or in the case of horn, which I have auditioned on, the section. There are a LOT of players who can play the poop out of a hard concerto but have no idea how to blend with a group or a section, because they only listen to themselves. So very often the wrong person gets the gig, even though it is not a paid gig, and one who would have been a much better section player is not considered because of not being able to play that difficult concerto that has nothing to do with the actual repertoire or skills required. The same was true way back when, when I was doing auditions at the pro level on violin. Had to have that concerto under the belt. I also think some sight reading of "typical" literature should be included. Not sight reading of flute parts on tuba.

Three Valves wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:10 am I'd rather listen to kids play a two octave range well, judging on execution and tone,

Instead of listen to a bunch of kids play three octaves poorly until just and handful appear that can.

yeah...but (as Unca' Joe says) "Here's the thing"...

Not very much FULL orchestra music is graded (as is wind-band music, or string orchestra music).

Full orchestra music (typically) is just "music"...and is going to selected for a youth orchestra (mostly) based on "Can the fiddles handle this piece?"

The fact that a tuba part contains a low E-flat and/or a high E-flat is of little consequence to a run-of-the-mill youth orchestra music director...so (as either both of those range extremes are just as likely to be set on a 16-year-old youth orchestra tuba player's stand as not), their capabilities (at least when first allowing them entrance into the ensemble) might as will be surmised.

bloke "and hey: Truth be told...Of all the instruments in the orchestra, a barely-competent-to-incompetent tuba is likely to do the least damage, as long as they back off their sound production, and manage to avoid playing in rests."