TubaForum.net

Just saw this:

https://apnews.com/article/entertainmen ... fa482a924f

Is the implication here that if you want to be employed by an orchestra, you're not allowed to privately voice your opinions? I mean, I don't know what their employment contracts say or what they've agreed to by accepting employment... but... reading 20 sentences in this article, it sounds nuts.

(Mods -- this isn't meant to be political, it's about employment expectations of professional musicians.)

No different than any employee in any other business.

It is not political. It is administrative. Without wasting too much bandwidth, I used to work for a labor lawyer, and helped him manage employment security cases. Yes, a person is generally free to express opinions on anything. But equally, an employer, unless bound by a collective bargaining agreement, may manage employees at will, limited by any applicable federal or state law. If there is a collective bargaining agreement, then what action the administration may take will be proscribed by the agreement. If not, then the administration will determine if anything will be done going forward otherwise.

Move along, there's no more to see here....

Anyone in any private employment needs to be aware that they (generally) serve at-will and can be terminated at any time for any reason outside of overt (i.e., provable) illegal discrimination. The broad implication is that part of your job is not to bring the public standing of your employer into question, especially in a way that can affect revenue. Your job, at the bottom line, is to put money into the organization's bank account. Whether that is through sales, creating a product, or helping organize or structure the company to make it more efficient, that is your job. If you create a P.R. nightmare for your employer, you make it harder for them to get money in their bank account.

I would say that voicing conspiracy theories in a way public enough that they came to the attention of management falls into the category of potential P.R. nightmare, and the orchestra felt the need to get out in front of it.

To your point, I have no doubt that there is a process spelled out in the contract between the player (read: union) and the orchestra that defines what behavior can lead to discipline and what that discipline can be. That can lead to litigation. Hence the refusal to comment on it.

But the orchestra's statement was made to ensure that their source of revenue continued to feel comfortable providing that revenue, nothing more. Just like every time a sports franchise has to issue a similar statement about any number of their employees' transgressions. I have to believe that the majority of the Baltimore Symphony's audience vigorously disagrees with what the person in question stated, and the orchestra needed to make clear where they stood so as to not risk alienating (even passively, through silence) that audience.

In a scenario like this, there is no absolute right or wrong answer. It's always a best guess as to what course of action will ensure the dollars still roll in.

The more so inasmuch as a she's a public performance entertainer. Image has a great deal of value here, and an employer has to be aware of that.

iiipopes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:57 am No different than any employee in any other business.

Do most other businesses publicly rebuke their employees?

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:06 pm

iiipopes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:57 am No different than any employee in any other business.

Do most other businesses publicly rebuke their employees?

Many do. Especially those (sports, media) that create revenue by building and maintaining an audience for an entertainment product. But other companies do it all the time, especially over the past few years.

I understand all of that. Just seemed unusual to see a story like this about a flute player. I guess I hadn't thought about it as being part of the "entertainment industry," but I suppose it is. Fair enough. In which case, then, it's just like so many other places now... fall in line and keep your mouth shut. Or at the very least, just keep your mouth shut.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:51 pm I understand all of that. Just seemed unusual to see a story like this about a flute player. I guess I hadn't thought about it as being part of the "entertainment industry," but I suppose it is. Fair enough. In which case, then, it's just like so many other places now... fall in line and keep your mouth shut. Or at the very least, just keep your mouth shut.

The issue is that if they DON'T treat the flute player the same way they would treat the Executive Director or Music Director (or another more public person), they create an issue for themselves down the road. There are a lot of situations in and out of employment law where an organization has to take a seemingly petty position in order to stay consistent. It's why you get instances of large companies suing mom and pop stores over trademark or copyright infringement where it seems like (and is!) punching down.

It's also one of the many instances where "cuz money!" is the basis of a decision and for some reason provides all the justification anyone needs to understand the decision. Making money, losing money, being sued for money. It's always at the core somehow.

there is a reason I never post about politics anymore, anywhere

iiipopes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:57 am Move along, there's no more to see here....

Provided the BSO "rebuked" anyone making crackpot statements about the safety of the vaccine because it was being rushed before the election for political expediency, or crazy conspiracy theories about the results of the 2016 election due to strategizing or collusion with foreign powers, I'd have no problem with this latest action.

But I'm confident no one on the staff made or re-tweeted such remarks over the last three years or so...



The answer to Borts' question is yes for thee but not for me.

Imagine Tiny Tim singing "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" with a mask on...
Joe H

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:00 pm There are certain people to never speak to at work:

everyone there

There are certain things that no one should ever post about on social media:

things that actually matter

Please repeat at a higher volume for the benefit of those seated in the rear of the facility.

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:00 pm There are certain people to never speak to at work:

everyone there

There are certain things that no one should ever post about on social media:

things that actually matter

Our world really makes me scratch my head sometimes, but for the sake of all involved I agree restraint is best. I never lose sight of the fact that good and decent people far outnumber all others and this gives me hope for the future, no matter one's persuasion.

I was once accused of making racist, sexist tweets by the company lunatic. I was lectured by HR. When finally allowed to speak, I pointed out that I had never had a Twitter account and considered it the toilet paper of the internet. I was not fired then but was released in a staff reduction six months later.

Never discuss politics or society anywhere.

Many years ago (HS/college days) I had a retail job in a small "mom-and-pop" store, smack in the middle of a major Northeast city, that was owned by what I would call an "old-style liberal" - a man who was born 20 years before the Depression, the type that would have possibly voted for Eugene Debs.....

We frequently discussed all topics - religion, politics, economics, current events, and even though we disagreed on almost everything, we agreed on one thing - the right for each of us to have our own respective opinions. To this day I still consider him to be my friend; and even though he passed many years ago, there are times I still miss him.

I worked there for almost 7 years, before I resigned - I wonder how that happened.......

Yorkboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:00 am Many years ago (HS/college days) I had a retail job in a small "mom-and-pop" store, smack in the middle of a major Northeast city, that was owned by what I would call an "old-style liberal" - a man who was born 20 years before the Depression, the type that would have possibly voted for Eugene Debs.....

Yep. Those that believed First, Fifth and other amendment rights were for everyone.

These days, I would NOT post ANYTHING controversial. WHO KNOWS what orchestra management will do. In all contracts, there is an article that musicians can be fired for 'just cause.' The causes are not spelled out, so this gives orchestra managements a wide swath in which they can exert their authority.

It is perfectly acceptable for reasonable, well-meaning people who might disagree to still be respectful to each other. This board is a great example of how that can work.

Isn't it tempting? Go ahead, guys, quit hanging back! Dive in and share your enlightened knowledge on one of these matters that would surely be of concern to all tuba players, and you know many of us will agree with you! You know you want to! If we can't learn the truth here, where can we go?

The siren call of social media. Ever wonder, maybe it's a sort of blessing, as a public personality, to be relieved of twitter campaign duty? If you can get used to letting it roll past.

I hope I don't need to remind the members here that there are trolls actively looking for ammunition to use to cancel certain members of this group. I just got a call last week about a campaign involving one of the Facebook groups.