TubaForum.net

I have never been a fan of actually performing Bach works on tuba for an audience, in particular the Cello Suites, particularly because I would rather have them experience a good cellist perform these. However, I have been a big proponent on studying Bach transcriptions for the musical skills they give.

I normally do a summer tuba project where I work on something, like running an etude book, etc. This summer, I thought working up some Bach stuff would be fun and something to really make actual music out of it. With summer already here, I pulled out my Bixby/Bobo book to read some stuff. I have done stuff on both my CC and F, and have found advantages to both horns (and equal disadvantages). From what I have done the past few days, I have already focused directly on linear phrasing in everything else, so the benefits of study are rpesent.

Outside of this book, I am looking to work up a Cello Suite. For those of you who have done Bach, which Cello Suites, as a whole, do you think work best on tuba in the original keys. I am thinking of doing them on F at the octave written, while cross-training on CC at octave and 8vb for some additional "stress" phrasing. I kind of regret never studying these during my studies (I believe my professors have the same view of performing these as I do), but for those who have, what have you found effective in studying these in terms of horn choice, octaves, double stop treatment, etc.

Cello Suite No. 1 is a good piece to work on. Here's a guy that does a credible job playing it on tuba. There are other YouTube videos of tuba/Bach that are very good, also.

https://youtu.be/z83scJoP3Eo?t=3

Ace

Ace wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:16 pm Cello Suite No. 1 is a good piece to work on. Here's a guy that does a credible job playing it on tuba. There are other YouTube videos of tuba/Bach that are very good, also.

https://youtu.be/z83scJoP3Eo?t=3

Ace

I was thinking 1, 2, or 5 looked good but not sure. Not a big fan of videos and recordings of tubists when I am working on these. When I listen it will be of the original instrument, because when I do that of tubists, I will hear 20 different things and practices in 5 recordings

When music of whatever genre needs to be performed in an authentic manner, my “research“ usually involves “stealing from the best“...
...so I guess I would just listen to Casals, and mark things Casals did on a scanned copy of my music.

controversial bloke comment:
I am certainly no Bach nor Baroque music performance practices scholar, but it just seems to me that – particularly with solo instrument Baroque era music - 20th - 21st c. performers superimpose way too much romanticism in their performances ...but perhaps that’s required, in order to make those performances palatable/interesting to modern ears.

That having been said, whenever I’ve performed any works of Bach, I’ve gone to a local university music library‘s complete collection of his works and copied the piece that I wanted to play on their copy machine. Those collections feature absolutely no phrase marks, breath marks, articulations, nor markings of any type (“notes only”), and thus are completely “clean” and ready for anyone’s personal editing.

hint:
If playing a treble clef composition in the original key, using WiteOut on the bottom line of the clef, adding a line up at the top (with a pen and a ruler), and doing a little bit more work with WiteOut and a pen might be faster than scanning the music (and editing out all the scanning misinterpretations) with a music editing program.

I've been spending a lot of time with the cello suites lately. In general, there's always a movement or two in each suite that doesn't really work on tuba. Doesn't mean they're not worth practicing - just that performance is likely not in the future. But every musician needs to spend time interpreting Bach, even if just in the practice room. There is no substitute for the ear training, harmonic training, interpretation/musicality training, and technical training it provides.

There are frequently gestures that work a certain way on cello that will never work on tuba and need to be heavily edited. For example, cellos can perform "light" double, triple, and quadruple stops when necessary. Tubas can't. When it has to be light, I reduce them down to one or two notes to keep the line moving. Cellos also have inherent timbre differences between the strings, so highlighting different voices is much more natural. Tubas need to come up with other ways to differentiate between the voices (volume, note length, articulation). Finally, certain trills that make all the sense in the world on cello may not be fluid on tuba. As those are ornaments that are historically left up to the performer, ornament as it works for you, even if the edition you're working off of has different ornaments.

I have been working on suites 1-4. They all generally work well as written on F tuba and an octave down on CC. Again, movements here and there don't. Some work better in the written octave on C tuba. And some small sections need their octaves moved around. But largely.

The Netherlands Bach Society has recorded them all, and the performances are all worth considering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGnZHIY ... eo0tiehjZf

They highlight a very un-Romanticized interpretation and (to me) give a lot of permission to interpret individually as your instrument and you need/want.

I am also a fan of the earlier suites.

tubanh84 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:22 amThere are frequently gestures that work a certain way on cello that will never work on tuba and need to be heavily edited. For example, cellos can perform "light" double, triple, and quadruple stops when necessary. Tubas can't. When it has to be light, I reduce them down to one or two notes to keep the line moving.

Light use of multiphonics works well if you pick the important notes, keep it musical and not just a gimmic.

tubanh84 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:22 amCellos also have inherent timbre differences between the strings, so highlighting different voices is much more natural. Tubas need to come up with other ways to differentiate between the voices (volume, note length, articulation). Finally, certain trills that make all the sense in the world on cello may not be fluid on tuba. As those are ornaments that are historically left up to the performer, ornament as it works for you, even if the edition you're working off of has different ornaments.

I like starting with the original, listening to many recordings, and then making your own edition that makes use of whichever tuba you use to convey the character of the music. Yes, you are playing it with romantic ears, but I find many excellent, informed professional Baroque ensembles using more of that style of performance practice (the piano-forte wouldn't have been invented if there hadn't been a NEED to imitate the usages of voice and instruments... ).

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:46 am When music of whatever genre needs to be performed in an authentic manner, my “research“ usually involves “stealing from the best“...
...so I guess I would just listen to Casals, and mark things Casals did on a scanned copy of my music.

Agreed. I do find a degree enjoyment and entertainment in tuba recordings, but I think they serve more as inspiration that these can be done well on tuba (and admiration for those who make it seem easy/natural).

controversial bloke comment:
I am certainly no Bach nor Baroque music performance practices scholar, but it just seems to me that – particularly with solo instrument Baroque era music - 20th - 21st c. performers superimpose way too much romanticism in their performances ...

Historically, that is not controversial.

controversy continued... wrote:but perhaps that’s required, in order to make those performances palatable/interesting to modern ears.

I'm not sure why would romanticize pre-romantic music, save for the audience (unwashed masses, other non-scholar musicphiles, and sometimes ourselves).

hint:
If playing a treble clef composition in the original key, using WiteOut on the bottom line of the clef, adding a line up at the top (with a pen and a ruler), and doing a little bit more work with WiteOut and a pen might be faster than scanning the music (and editing out all the scanning misinterpretations) with a music editing program.

Hey, kids... take note: Old-school solutions, while sometimes appearing only somewhat clever or even crude by your modern (and spoiled) standards, get the job done and often with much more efficiency. And now you can get White Out/Liquid Paper in tape form - you can stream out one big, straight line of it across the page pretty quickly instead of painting in on with a brush and waiting for it to dry - yes, we actually did that. And both of those take less time than firing up the computer and creating a new transposed part in your preferred music software.

Doc (who likes modern solutions, but - all jokes aside - has solved more problems with duct tape, bailing wire, and a sharp pocket knife than applying tedious, inefficient modern solutions)