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Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:03 pm
by ronr
Did my first orchestra rehearsal in over a year tonight. Fourth movement of Tchaikovsky 5 has four sharps in places. I’m reminded that I’m a very good concert band player, but orchestral music? I love it, but oof.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:49 am
by bloke
I feel certain that you can easily remedy any lack of comfort by just pulling out some vocalise books (or buying some), and playing through a bunch of stuff at home that’s in the keys of A, E, B and their relative minors.
Based on my own wind-band experience (as to what I’ve encountered there), you probably already are quite comfortable playing with G/D major, and B/E minor.
I will admit that there’s a bit of a problem with vocalise books - that are published for tuba and written in the tuba range - being “flat key dumbed” down“, to a great extent.
If you can read string bass music (at the octave), some vocalise books in titled “Ryhthmical Articulation“ feature more vocalises in sharp keys. Sometimes, it can also be fun to play them as written, and squeal out the G sharps and A’s that are encountered.
In the very wide realm of “western music written down on paper”, I believe that a survey or tabulation would reveal that more of it is written in keys that drift on the sharp side away - from C major, than on the flat side - drifting farther away from C major. When music that’s only performed “by ear” - or only written down on lead sheets - is included, I believe that majority becomes overwhelming - towards the sharp side.
LOL... Even bagpipe music - though it sounds like it’s in “flat keys“ is actually in sharp keys, because bagpipes are one of the few instruments that still tune to “high pitch“, and the pitch they call “A” sounds like a modern-tuning “B-flat” to everyone else.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:12 am
by Three Valves
They are the Devil!!
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:04 am
by Yadent
Have 2 Fourth of July concerts. Playing Stars and Stripes in both. With the Pops orchestra I’m playing treble clef euphonium in 3 flats. No problem. With the Symphony I’m playing tuba with the score in 4 sharps. It’s as if all of my brain’s neuron connections have been severed playing sharps. Not enough fingers, or air. Hand-eye-brain coordination…..it’s gone. Guess the prolonged lay-off affected me more than I realized. Either that or I’ve sucked at ‘excessive’ sharps and haven’t admitted it previously……….
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:34 am
by Doc
Had another reading rehearsal Monday (Houston Brass Band). Playing BBb bass is not too bad - just use CC fingerings on a BBb tuba and read treble clef as if it were concert pitch. Easy enough, right? Then one piece had a key change to B (5#), and the now-quite-technical line was near the top of the treble staff. D looked like B and F looked like A, and some accidentals thrown in... I thought I might short-circuit for a second.
I wish I could have taken it to the woodshed prior to rehearsal.
Sharps remind us of our band (flats) origins, and it also reminds us that we are, indeed, mortal.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:42 am
by bloke
Sharps are easier than manual shift, and only car thieves (ok...and most graduate students) are too dumb to figure out manual shift.
Three Valves wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:12 am
They are the Devil!!
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:09 am
by the elephant
@ronr
Get several etude books. Copy out every etude you can in the needed keys and put them into a folder. Write out major and minor scales, broken scales, and arpeggios in that key. Every day do all of the scales etc. Read all of the etudes. At the end of the week you will be very comfortable in that key.
I have a book of compilations like that, to include major excerpts, too. I still read out of if before the first service of a difficult work in a challenging key. Where I am in my career it is not for familiarity of fingerings but for melodic and chordal intonation exercises.
I also have some very easy voclises that I have played since the 10th grade that I have set in all 12 keys, around the circle of 5ths, starting in C and ending in F, that I use with new horns or mouthpieces to see how they work out for me. I also use them with drone pitches on a regular basis to keep each horn straight in my mind regarding alternates, slide pulls, or lipped notes. If you want a copy of this book PM me. (Just ronr, please. I do not need to be giving away a bunch of copies, thanks.)
Keep in mind that there are no difficult keys. There are only unfamiliar ones. True story.
Good luck.
EDITED to add content.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:14 am
by Doc
the elephant wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:09 am
@ronr
Get several etude books. Copy out every etude you can in the needed keys and put them into a folder. Write out major and minor scales, broken scales, and arpeggios in that key. Every day do all of the scales etc. Read all of the etudes. At the end of the week you will be very comfortable in that key.
There are no difficult keys. There are only unfamiliar ones. True story.
Good luck.
^^^Truth!^^^
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:53 pm
by bloke
People are probably tired of me reporting what I do – perhaps as a nervous habit, but really it’s to pass the time when there is no radio worth listening to:
When I’m driving, I will think of fairly-to-very complicated tunes (OK…sure…as I’ve been doing this for decades, and not for months), and “play“ them in my head while tuba fingering them in keys - that some would consider to be “remote“ - against the steering wheel. ‘ funny how that has gotten me to where *I really don’t care what key something is played or written in...and regardless of whether I’m playing a B-flat, C, E-flat, or F tuba.
Wade’s offering, though, seems more practical for most people…and it’s surely something that would do me a great deal of good as well.
There is no such thing as “being ready for anything/everything“, and that’s certainly true with me.
____________
*In Memphis, there is a celebration that has been shrunken down to being a society thing, whereby it used to be a entire city wide thing. It has a theme, and two or three years ago a friend and I were playing trumpet-and-tuba-only songs/marches (with titles related to the theme, and with no sheet music). After playing one really long song that had a whole bunch of different strains, he looked at me and asked, “What the hell was all that?“ He was able to play along with me, but apparently I played the entire thing in a goofy key - that was nowhere close to the original key...
...and i’ve also said (and people are probably tired of reading this as well) that I believe I’ve sort of gotten to the place where all of the various keys on all the various tubas – to me – are just sort of like moving a capo on a guitar neck. … This is NOT “talent“; it’s just time invested.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:13 pm
by GC
the elephant wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:09 am
Keep in mind that there are no difficult keys. There are only unfamiliar ones.
If you're going to play in the orchestral world, you need to be familiar with sharp keys. They're everywhere.
They show up more than people sometimes remember in the band world, particularly in transcriptions.
Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral is mostly in Eb, but the middle section goes to E for a while and then back to Eb. Lots of culture shock there.
In British Brass Band music, Eb instruments (Eb bass, soprano cornet, and tenor horn) not only kick the key signatures up 3 spots around the circle of 5ths, they do it in treble clef. Key of Bb (2 flats) becomes the key of G (1 sharp). Key of C becomes A (3 sharps). Key of E, like the OP is complaining about, becomes C# (7 sharps).
We get used to it. Do we complain about it? You betcha we do. Then we play it.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:24 pm
by ronr
Yadent wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:04 am
Have 2 Fourth of July concerts. Playing Stars and Stripes in both. With the Pops orchestra I’m playing treble clef euphonium in 3 flats. No problem. With the Symphony I’m playing tuba with the score in 4 sharps. It’s as if all of my brain’s neuron connections have been severed playing sharps. Not enough fingers, or air. Hand-eye-brain coordination…..it’s gone. Guess the prolonged lay-off affected me more than I realized. Either that or I’ve sucked at ‘excessive’ sharps and haven’t admitted it previously……….
I hear you. Christmas Festival two consecutive days, one with orchestra one with band. Orch opens in concert D, band in concert D-flat.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:25 pm
by ronr
bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:42 am
Sharps are easier than manual shift, and only car thieves (ok...and most graduate students) are too dumb to figure out manual shift.
Especially the millennial car thieves!
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm
by Snake Charmer
The problem with sharps is not the playing but the reading. If you play in E major by ear the fingerings may need some concentration but everything sounds fine. But when you have a look a the sheet you see all that barbed wire on the left: PANIC! And why comes that beloved E flat in disguise, sitting on the D line?
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:34 am
by Three Valves
Snake Charmer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:33 pm
And why comes that beloved E flat in disguise, sitting on the D line?
Stupefying!!
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:44 am
by bloke
... Familiarity, again, is the only issue.
“E-flat tuba“ is my weakest “read” of the four common tuba lengths...
...the one E-flat tuba-pitch valve-combination that still makes absolutely no sense to my brain...??
C-Sharp - with first valve
bloke “when that tricky ‘circle of fifths’ doubles back on itself…
”
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:20 am
by Mary Ann
Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:34 am
Had another reading rehearsal Monday (Houston Brass Band). Playing BBb bass is not too bad - just use CC fingerings on a BBb tuba and read treble clef as if it were concert pitch. Easy enough, right? Then one piece had a key change to B (5#), and the now-quite-technical line was near the top of the treble staff. D looked like B and F looked like A, and some accidentals thrown in... I thought I might short-circuit for a second.
I wish I could have taken it to the woodshed prior to rehearsal.
Sharps remind us of our band (flats) origins, and it also reminds us that we are, indeed, mortal.
EEEK. In quintet last week, the horn player was saying she simply cannot figure out how I read music because I read by pitch. I said, I don't see how people can read by fingering and transpose all over the place, because I'm not smart enough to do that. So BBb bass in brass band....I read tenor clef down an octave and add two flats. I use the fingering on whatever instrument I happen to have in my hands, to play the pitches I hear (yup) in that clef. I don't see how you guys do it the way you do. I never came up through a system that instructed, "for this dot on the page put down these fingers." They don't teach violin that way, or piano, or viola, or guitar, or mandolin, all of which came first. So when horn came about at age 45, it was logical to just have middle C be the second line from the bottom, and call it "horn clef." Just added a few more when brass band came on the radar.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:39 am
by bloke
I have various methods that I use for transposition (outlined on previous threads), but - when I just can't come up with an easier way, I'll resort to just "playing in the key" (fingering pattern-wise) and note the interval that I'm going up or down on the clef - from where I am. If stuff isn't too hairy, that works fairly well...and (can we talk...??) tuba parts usually aren't very difficult, and particularly not those which people request that we transpose (ie. simple bass lines to vocal solos).
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:12 pm
by Doc
bloke wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:39 am
when I just can't come up with an easier way, I'll resort to just "playing in the key" (fingering pattern-wise) and note the interval that I'm going up or down on the clef - from where I am. If stuff isn't too hairy, that works fairly well...and (can we talk...??) tuba parts usually aren't very difficult, and particularly not those which people request that we transpose (ie. simple bass lines to vocal solos).
^^^ This was my kollitch experience reading tenor and alto clef. I eventually became less than completely $#!++¥, but nowhere near the realm of proficient. Intervals are your friend.
Re: Sharps vs. Me
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:54 am
by bloke
Most every player at every level is weak in some aspect of playing. Here’s an example - and don’t fool yourself: A large percentage of “symphony“ musicians (very much so) wish that they could play more things without music and play along with chord changes (and greatly admire those few colleagues of theirs who can), but - just as with most so-called “amateurs” - don’t alter their routines to strengthen themselves regarding this weakness, so nothing changes - regarding this weakness.
A couple of decades ago - even though I really don’t need this skill very much at all, I got tired of not being very good at playing lip trills, so I sat down - over a period of weeks, mastered the technique, and sped it up to an acceptable speed.
Every once in a while, I go back and “top off” my skill level regarding this technique, as it’s not something that comes natural to me.
“Reading sharps” is surely a lot easier to strengthen than “teaching oneself how to do lip trills”, but – since tuba players that mostly perform in certain musical genres don’t encounter a lot of sharps very often - it’s probably something that also (as with my lip trills) requires home maintenance. Adopting the proper attitude defines it as fun to pick up new types of skills, rather than worrying about not having them.
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