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I was just curious about the practicality of adding a Eb tuning slide to a F tuba? Would This make the instrument stuffy or play completely out of tune?

My reasoning is that I have a very tight budget and I want a Non-compensating fully chromatic Eb tuba.

I was thinking something like this: https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... ronzegold/



Lets hope I don't get too scolded for this idea

Wasn't there a travel tuba of Asian manufacture that had an F as well as Eb MTS? I'm sure I saw a few of them on eBay, but don't see any now.

It can definitely be done. You'll have to pull all the tuning slides out as well by a certain proportion to get those in tune as well. Just remember you're adding approximately two feet of cylindrical tubing to the main bugle, so that could cause any number of intonation issues.

I realize that this doesn’t go to the heart of your question, but one problem I see with that particular instrument pictured (which can be overcome) is that (my eye tells me that) the #3 circuit is quite short, and appears that it probably needs a good bit of pulling just to be long enough for F, so I would anticipate that some sort of #3 slide extension would need to be also fabricated - for that particular model.

Try this. Hold down your first valve, pull the rest of your valve slides, and see how good the intonation is on the horn using valves 2 through 5. That will give you an idea how the horn will play by adding the length of tubing equivalent to the 1st valve.

In theory it should work, I've seen main tuning slide loops to turn a miraphone 186cc into a 186BBb, so this should be much simpler. Measure the 1st valve to see exactly how much tubing you need.

The hardest part might be getting the parts.

Also not a direct response, but I have a set of BBb slides for my MW2165.

I think my MW2165 is a quite capable tuba with a very solid scale in CC.

In BBb, it does not possess these necessary qualities, even when all needed slide adjustments are made.

Recently some people here saw that I added extensions to convert a MW5450 to a B-natural tuba.
The intonation did not suffer, and response was only slowed by an amount predictable between C and B-(flat) models of the same instrument…but not quite as much, since I only lowered it a half step. All of that having been said, the response speed on the same actual pitches (not “fingerings”) was actually about the same.

That having been said, the personal experience that I had - years ago - with those loop-the-loop C to B-flat Miraphone 186 conversion slides was nothing less than disastrous.

The extension to the main slide would have to add 18 or so inches. If all the slides can be pulled enough to be in tune it should only mess with intonation a little. (It will, for certain, but perhaps it will not be all that bad.) I would worry more about response issues.

The only horns I have played that were in two keys via a slide swap have always played okay using the slides that were designed for it, and poorly with the slides that were the add-on feature. For instance, the Getzen CB-50 was a very good CC tuba, but it sort of sucked as a BBb. The five or six Eb/D trumpets that I have played all had one set of slides that worked very well and one that made the horn only passable. Well, one of them was not so good with either set.

In the case of HP/LP instruments, they almost always play better for me on the HP side, making me think they were designed with this in mind and then lengthened to allow for LP playing. This is a shame since the LP side is the one you can *almost* use in a modern ensemble in the US.

Your mileage may will vary, of course, but yes, you could do this. I would recommend trying to find a replacement main slide crook to take that bit of difficulty out of the equation, then building whatever you want with that. If you use two smaller crooks to make a folded slide it will add some resistance. This can be a good thing, but in my limited experience with this sort of mod, it is usually not good resistance. It depends on the horn. I am guessing that something as short/small as an F tuba might not be harmed by this.

Unless I had a work-related *need* I would not bother with this sort of thing, personally. The one benefit is that the modifications only involve removable parts and not anything permanent.

If you do this please post about it and share some nice, well-lit, high-resolution photos and tell us how it plays.

Another thing about instruments built in that particular factory in China is that I believe their tubing follows the Meinlschmidt half-millimeter telescoping model, so I believe you could buy inside/outside extensions - and maybe even narrow cylindrical slide bows (per Wade’s suggestion) to execute this experiment (bought from that company in Germany).

again: I strongly suspect that you would need some 19mm bore inside/outside tubing - to extend the #3 circuit beyond its current extension capability.

York-aholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:29 am Wasn't there a travel tuba of Asian manufacture that had an F as well as Eb MTS? I'm sure I saw a few of them on eBay, but don't see any now.

Right here - https://us.wessex-tubas.com/collections ... ie-5-tf135
Tim

I suspect that two pair of (same size as the main slide tubes) inside/outside slide tubes - each of the tubes: a foot long (if you choose to ONLY first test this - before committing) - would be just enough tubing to do the main slide.

...but (again) I would also recommend four pieces (perhaps the same length, which would be plenty) - two each of 19mm bore and 20mm bore - inside/outside) to extend the #3 circuit.

If (??) there is a return option on the tuba, you may (??) wish to purchase those tubes in advance.

matt g wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:27 am Also not a direct response, but I have a set of BBb slides for my MW2165.

I think my MW2165 is a quite capable tuba with a very solid scale in CC.

In BBb, it does not possess these necessary qualities, even when all needed slide adjustments are made.

Do you mean it doesn't have a very solid scale? Or it doesn't resonate in BBb like it does in CC? I can see how, if the nodes are somehow designed in to work for a bugle length, whether on purpose or by accident, that the key it's designed for would work better than a key it is not designed for.

I seem to remember that the Bubbie was said to play much better in Eb than in F, which suggests it was designed as an Eb and then they decided it would be nice to also have it playable in F.

MORE TOWARDS THE ORIGINAL TOPIC...

Wade's D/E-flat trumpet (two sets of slides) observation is spot on.

Old Bach Stradivarius trumpets - which were manufactured as C / B-flat trumpets - tend to not sell for very much.
Even though they (probably...??) are just C trumpets with extra B-flat slides, there seems to be a bias against them.

There were a couple people with crooks for PT10p’s. The one I played was hideous, but I saw another one that sounded great, and the owner said the problems were easy to correct while playing. This is pre-PT22….

Always keep in mind that it's just a tuba.

“the Devil” wrote:I’ll trade you this book - here – for that D-flat tuba - there.

the elephant wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:44 pm Always keep in mind that it's just a tuba.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:30 pm

matt g wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:27 am Also not a direct response, but I have a set of BBb slides for my MW2165.

I think my MW2165 is a quite capable tuba with a very solid scale in CC.

In BBb, it does not possess these necessary qualities, even when all needed slide adjustments are made.

Do you mean it doesn't have a very solid scale? Or it doesn't resonate in BBb like it does in CC? I can see how, if the nodes are somehow designed in to work for a bugle length, whether on purpose or by accident, that the key it's designed for would work better than a key it is not designed for.

I seem to remember that the Bubbie was said to play much better in Eb than in F, which suggests it was designed as an Eb and then they decided it would be nice to also have it playable in F.

The response suffers greatly. The intonation just gets a bit weird. I can’t remember the specifics, but I remember the octaves compressing or stretching (can’t remember which) when the BBb slides are in place.

I give unto you the CC helicon!



Tim had this Eb helicon turned into CC with very long extensions to the main slide. If he can do it to CC you can do it from F to Eb!