Dings vs dents; demos, b stock

[DonO.]

In my quest for a horn I’ve been looking at demos, b stock, and such. Some dealers describe the horns as having “minor dings and scratches but no dents”. Aren’t dings just little dents? Also, my local instrument dealer says he can get “b stock” instruments at a substantial discount from the manufacturer. But the deal is this: the instruments are already sealed up with b stock stickers on them sitting in a warehouse away from the manufacturing facility. No way to look at them to figure out what exactly caused them to be marked b stock. But if he orders it and I don’t
like it because of the cosmetic damage I could send it back. Is it a worthy gamble? What kind of damage exactly should I be looking for on an instrument that was designated b stock?

[bloke]

Over at the obsolete site, I used to poke fun at these words - just as you have here.

IF those words ACTUALLY had meaning (which they do NOT) I would personally define them in this way:

- ping: nail-head sized shallow dent

- depression: finger-tip sized rounded dent

- dink: same size as a "depression", but with a sharp line within it

- small/medium/large dent: - [describe the size]

- smashed-in area: at least 30% dented area, usually with sharp lines within it

- crease: a single-line fold in a bell flare

- cauliflower crease: compound bell creases

PICTURES (and not so zoomed in that someone can't even interpret what they're seeing) eliminate the need for ANY of this.

me...??
I eliminate all of this, by selling no-dents-in-them instruments.

[The Big Ben]

In the general Seattle area, there is a dealer named "Quinn The Eskimo". He moves a lot of horns which he gets from distributors and manufacturers. It is better for a manufacturer like Conn-Selmer to sell off at a wholesale discount instruments which are returns, open box and b-stock. They don't have to service these horns which they would do in order to offer a warrantee. They can be new (untouched by buyer), returns and b-stock (which have been checked and any minor faults corrected) and used (again, checked and any minor faults corrected.) I have known some of their customers and have met and talked to the tech who does their in house servicing and repairs. Presently, they have a couple of King 2341s which appear to be really good deals. Your milage may vary. Also, e-mail them with your needs. They sometimes have things which have not been put on their website yet and things that they know are coming in.

https://www.brassandwinds.comQuinn the Eskimo/Brass and Winds

[DonO.]

Yes familiar with “Quinn”. He has a 2341 right now that he describes as “mint” that has numerous obvious scratches on the lower part- you could call it “buckle rash” I guess. It would be worth the price he’s asking if it were mint, but I wouldn’t call it that. I would be ok with the scratches but he shouldn’t call it mint snd it should be discounted way more. Also I don’t like the way he plays games with shipping. Sometimes shipping is $300, sometimes $200, sometimes $150, and sometimes free- for the same make and model of horn! Don’t like that at all. Shipping should be consistent.

[Three Valves]

King 2341s which appear to be really good deals.

The one for 4799.00 could simply be resold if one didn't like it.

Every music educator and student in N America knows what it is and should snatch it up!!

[hrender]

Last suggestion: if you're okay with a 4/4 horn, Dan Schulz isn't too far from you, and he has a few horns for sale that would be worth a look if you want to look in person.

[bloke]

[thread origin]

Most of your posts - on this forum - are found in threads where smallish so-called "student" B-flat tubas are discussed...

...so are you in the market for an inexpensive small-ish B-flat tuba...or something else...??

I can't get to it (as it is currently NOT in saleable condition, at this time) until around Thanksgiving, but I recently picked up a silver 3/4 tuba that's the same size at the King 1135 (a Blessing, USA-made KNOCK-OFF of the TOP-action King model 1140) which (though the body of the instrument is Indiana-made) features a German-made (Bauerfeind) valveset (the same make featured on many of the Willson-made Swiss instruments). It's silver, currently has a few bell creases, and a few busted braces...but won't when it's eventually ready to be offered for sale.

It's not some "answer to everyone's prayers" tuba, but - again: when I finally get it slicked out - it should make someone happy.

...but - perhaps - your acquisition aspirations are higher than this...(??)

[Mary Ann]

Yes familiar with “Quinn”. He has a 2341 right now that he describes as “mint” that has numerous obvious scratches on the lower part- you could call it “buckle rash” I guess. It would be worth the price he’s asking if it were mint, but I wouldn’t call it that. I would be ok with the scratches but he shouldn’t call it mint snd it should be discounted way more. Also I don’t like the way he plays games with shipping. Sometimes shipping is $300, sometimes $200, sometimes $150, and sometimes free- for the same make and model of horn! Don’t like that at all. Shipping should be consistent.

Buyer beware.

[DonO.]

I decided to pull the trigger on the Quinn the Eskimo “open box” King 2341. Yeah, I know, everyone here thought I wanted a 3/4 size 3 valve. But that price (4799) was too hard for me to resist! I know I had expressed reservations about his business, but he gets very good ratings everywhere you look. 99.6% on eBay, for example. A+ rating on BBB because they have never received a complaint. He is authorized dealer for all Conn-Selmer brands and a member of NAMM. But any transaction like this is a gamble, but I decided to take it because THAT PRICE! Lower than the best price I could find on the beginner horn, and so much more horn! I am EXCITED! Why the low price? According to Matt (the owner), he bought a lot of 11 (!) of these. Conn Selmer was using them as “Show” horns. All 11 are dent-free but may have tiny lacquer scratches from handling. After he sells this one (he just did! ) he will list the others one or two at a time at the same price until he sells out. So if some of you might be interested in the same deal, just watch his listings! I will keep you all posted on whether this is a good transaction or not.

[DonO.]

Congrats on the purchase. I think you'll happier long term with that horn than a tiny student model. They aren't real heavy, I've had 6th graders use them

here's a tip. when (not if) you get annoying water collection in the knuckle of the 4th valve, there are two solutions

1. have a spit key installed right on the knuckle
2. learn how to do the "king dump" (not the king spin) you hold down the 4th valve, and while you are doing that, lean the tuba to the right enough that the water escapes through the leadpipe.

[matt g]

Congratulations on the purchase!

I agree with @LeMark in that you’ll be much happier with the 2341 over time. It’s a well made tuba and quite capable.

I went full in when I returned to playing. I spent even more (~$8000) to buy a tuba I wanted that I knew was a good horn. A little while later, I spent $7000 on another horn that I’d always wanted. As long as you’re motivated to play and enjoying your time behind the mouthpiece it’s money well spent.

[bloke]

We would all like to believe that we are not going to scratch up the bottoms of our like-new tubas - or the rocker panels on our like-new cars, but our reality-embracing selves know that we are going to...

...so buying a show tuba with bottom bow scratches (for only c. $1XXX above regular dealer cost) is a good reality-facing tack.
Congratulations, and I know you'll really enjoy that instrument.

Being more of a bottom-feeder, I look for the really shiny just plain-ol' USED 2341 tubas with easy-to-completely-remove dents, and really easy-to-smooth-out concentric bell creases (as tend to be found with those particular tubas) for (yet) a couple thousand dollars less, but I'm (mostly) a seller and (rarely) a consumer.

[Doc]

Congratulations on your purchase. The 2341 is known for being easy to play and having very good intonation. If it is mechanically sound (no leaks, good valves, etc.), and it is otherwise a typical example, it should serve you well with no issues at all.

Please post photos of your tuba when it arrives, and sound examples are encouraged.