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Any Shallow-Medium Shallow bowl (round) type cup mouthpieces come to mind (besides the traditional Mirafone C-4) that you can buy "new" these days. The 187 seems to respond so much better to a smaller mouthpiece of this style than anything else. Name off a few if you know of any so I can give them some thought...

I just got a recommendation to try the Yamaha Bobo Symphonic on my 184. Seems to fit the general description you're looking for. I have seen it compared pretty closely to the C4, so maybe it's too close to warrant testing (if you've decided the C4 isn't for you). I've never played either, having spent the last *cough* years playing funnel mouthpieces, so I can't attest to their similarity. Or really anything about them. Other than I'll try the Symphonic at some point after I'm allowed to start spending money again (having just bought the 184....).

tubanh84 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:54 am I just got a recommendation to try the Yamaha Bobo Symphonic on my 184. Seems to fit the general description you're looking for. I have seen it compared pretty closely to the C4, so maybe it's too close to warrant testing (if you've decided the C4 isn't for you). I've never played either, having spent the last *cough* years playing funnel mouthpieces, so I can't attest to their similarity. Or really anything about them. Other than I'll try the Symphonic at some point after I'm allowed to start spending money again (having just bought the 184....).

C4 rim is exactly what I like, the cup is decent but would like to find just something similar that builds compression faster for a better response on a larger horn. Deep or funnel shaped do not work well...at least for me. Also a throat bore of <8.0mm but the backbore that's open enough for a Contrabass tuba to tune well. That's what I was having issue with on the Alan Baer Original F..perfect rim and cup but the backbore was slightly tight.

Just by a new/used Schilke 69C4 (complete knock-off of C4/TU-23), and go after the back-end of it with one of these:
(not joking)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373538208441

I'm pretty sure that the tip of that reamer is small enough to not hit the throat.

Someone (??) in the "tuba community" is going to have a nice one of these that they are willing to sell for half-of-new price.

Seems odd it comes with a TU31 from Miraphone if it plays better (for you) with a smaller one.

Did it still have that one when you got it??

Three Valves wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:32 pm Seems odd it comes with a TU31 from Miraphone if it plays better (for you) with a smaller one.

Did it still have that one when you got it??

No it came with an old unusable Bach 24AW knockoff. TU-31 is a pretty large mouthpiece in itself for a "stock" giveaway piece with a new horn. 33.00mm diameter, 8.3mm throat, deep cup. I haven't seen if it's bowl shaped or not.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:20 pm Just by a new/used Schilke 69C4 (complete knock-off of C4/TU-23), and go after the back-end of it with one of these:
(not joking)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373538208441

I'm pretty sure that the tip of that reamer is small enough to not hit the throat.

Someone (??) in the "tuba community" is going to have a nice one of these that they are willing to sell for half-of-new price.

You're saying to bore out the backbore on the Schilke?

yes sir.

I found my PT64 to be exactly what I needed for the same reasons....faster response. The C4 didn't cut the mustard sound-wise. YMMV.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:32 pm I found my PT64 to be exactly what I needed for the same reasons....faster response. The C4 didn't cut the mustard sound-wise. YMMV.

Do you use the 64 for a Contrabass tuba? Can you possibly post a photo of the bowl shape here?

The Marc mouthpieces come in a variety of depths and rims configurations, although I think they mostly have the same inner diameter. I recall the N models are more bowl-shaped, although I haven't played one in >20 years.

The Perantucci line has some shallow, bowl-shaped models.

The Yamaha Bobo and Self models are fairly shallow.

hrender wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:50 am The Marc mouthpieces come in a variety of depths and rims configurations, although I think they mostly have the same inner diameter. I recall the N models are more bowl-shaped, although I haven't played one in >20 years.

The Perantucci line has some shallow, bowl-shaped models.

The Yamaha Bobo and Self models are fairly shallow.

I found both Jim Self variations to be too deep for my taste and both too much funnel shaped.. The "N" version of the MARC are all funnel shaped, or at best hybrid funnels like the Tommy Johnson N4. When I say bowl, I mean like an Apple. My Schilke 69C4 is 90% there..I may just send it to Ivan and have him replicate it in stainless unless, someone else of the stainless market can do that for cheaper and quicker than the Spring.

My list of recommended Tucci models would be: Sousapower 4 or the 40S. I have also had success pairing Miraphones, and their clones, with a Canadian Brass MB-88. It's a big mouthpiece but seems to do a bit better than its counterpart in the RT line (88). I'd also try a Stofer, Schilke, or Laskey Geib to see how things react.

KingTuba1241X wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:32 pm

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:32 pm I found my PT64 to be exactly what I needed for the same reasons....faster response. The C4 didn't cut the mustard sound-wise. YMMV.

Do you use the 64 for a Contrabass tuba? Can you possibly post a photo of the bowl shape here?

I seem to fail at posting photos....and the new ones are just Tucci I think anyway, but extremely similar. They may have pictures.
The only contrabass I played was my Mfone 184, and I also used that cup when I played Sam Pilafian's then Besson? CC, a long time ago. He said, upon hearing me play, "That's a good mouthpiece for that tuba." So....all I can tell you. Definitely a bowl cup, and a reasonably wide one. I found the rim on the C4 not sharp enough for my taste, and I find that if I use a funnel cup, I am behind the beat and too old to change my habits although I do like the sound of my Jim Self better, also my 7B.

It might sound really strange, but you might try the newer version of a Melton 24AW. They supply those with the 195 Fafners, and that mouthpiece works surprisingly well. If you like a more cushioned rim, relatively small cup volume (compared to the buckets in today's mouthpieces), and a large throat, this could work. FWIW, I like more cushioned rims, and I like the C4 rim design. I have the Giddings Alan Baer Original CC mouthpiece in titanium, it works well on large rotary tubas... very quick response, clarity, but with enough depth in the sound. A recent discovery (last few months), is that a Giddings Talladega works well on my Wessex XL. Very comfortable rim, larger throat, and a deeper cup.

I used a PT64 for a while on my BBb tubas. It worked well, especially in brass Quintet rep, however, I just couldn't get it to produce enough of the right kind of sound in larger ensembles (conductors asked for more sound, not edge ).

I've deployed the PT-64 on BB-flat tubas and have been delighted with focused tone resplendent with overtones...but I've found that the rim--for ME--doesn't have enough "bite" to ensure dependable attacks and facile response on "slow-speaking" contras, such as my Schiller 520 3/4, and the craptastic YBB-641s that are in circulation around here.

A blokepiece Imperial with the M.O. 32.3 LH rim gets me similar tonal opulence, but with dependable attacks and pinpoint-precision response, on all of my tubas.

BuddyRogersMusic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:42 pm My list of recommended Tucci models would be: Sousapower 4 or the 40S. I have also had success pairing Miraphones, and their clones, with a Canadian Brass MB-88. It's a big mouthpiece but seems to do a bit better than its counterpart in the RT line (88). I'd also try a Stofer, Schilke, or Laskey Geib to see how things react.

I have a Laskey 30Ge, and while I wouldn't call it a shallow - medium shallow cup, I would definitely agree it makes a great sound on larger BBb tubas and is worthy of testing. It was the perfect match for my 1291 BBb. I also have a Stofer Geib, and it is also a nice mouthpiece - its proportions seem/feel smaller than the Laskey and might be more suitable to your requirements??? (my unscientific assessment).

How about a Sellmansberger Solo with a regular or Profundo (tall) rim with the rim profile of your choice?