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I use (or am forced to use) a lot of Torx fasteners. I like them because they are designed to be removable; you can take them out and reinstall them over and over without any wear to the fastener or the tool. But all Torx fasteners are not really Torx, but Torx PLUS. I had never heard of these, but I have come across a few tools or other items that were assembled with "sloppy" Torx screws that did not properly fit my very well-made German Torx drivers. These were always very small, so I did not notice that they are a bit different than normal Torx heads.

I thought they were sloppily made Chinese fasteners, like the nuts and bolts that used to come on Harbor Freight products, that no wrench in the world will properly fit because they are in between normal sizes. [I had a hard and fast rule that the first thing I did with a new HF purchase was to take it apart and carry all the hardware to Ace to find "real" replacements. Rebuilding new stuff from HF used to add some life to these cheapo tools. Now they come with better-made hardware, so this is not such an issue. But as usual: I digress…]

Anyway, today I learned that these may have actually been Torx Plus fasteners.

So I need to check the few items that have these sloppy T-15's and see if they are not actually well-made T-15IP screws.

More crap to waste money on. Arrgghhh…

I had never heard of these until your post.
Since you said German made, I'm assuming your torx stuff is wiha. Evidently they make torxplus bit sets also.
https://www.wihatools.com/torxplus-bit- ... t-ip3-ip20

Yep. WiHa is some great stuff. As I said, more crap to buy. HAHAHA!!!

After you began this thread, Harbor Freight decided to email me to tell me that they are my "#1 Floor Jack Destination".

...so (since I really can't trust [even] their drill bits, and only buy their calipers because I drop them on the floor so many times that I screw them up before they would screw up on their own)...

...I should trust their jacks to hold a several ton vehicle up over that which currently houses my soul.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:56 pm After you began this thread, Harbor Freight decided to email me to tell me that they are my "#1 Floor Jack Destination".

...so (since I really can't trust [even] their drill bits, and only buy their calipers because I drop them on the floor so many times that I screw them up before they would screw up on their own)...

...I should trust their jacks to hold a several ton vehicle up over that which currently houses my soul.

I have a 10 year old harbor freight Floor jack, it's been no less reliable than the 30 year old Craftsman that used to belong to my Dad

I wouldn't use either one without Jack stand though.

from "Harbor Freight and a Torx variant" to "car jacks" to "jack stands" in HOW many posts...??

How about "carjacking"...??

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:16 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:56 pm After you began this thread, Harbor Freight decided to email me to tell me that they are my "#1 Floor Jack Destination".

...so (since I really can't trust [even] their drill bits, and only buy their calipers because I drop them on the floor so many times that I screw them up before they would screw up on their own)...

...I should trust their jacks to hold a several ton vehicle up over that which currently houses my soul.

I have a 10 year old harbor freight Floor jack, it's been no less reliable than the 30 year old Craftsman that used to belong to my Dad

I wouldn't use either one without Jack stand though.

Looks like you're screwed.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:42 pm from "Harbor Freight and a Torx variant" to "car jacks" to "jack stands" in HOW many posts...??

How about "carjacking"...??

LeMark wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:16 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:56 pm After you began this thread, Harbor Freight decided to email me to tell me that they are my "#1 Floor Jack Destination".

...so (since I really can't trust [even] their drill bits, and only buy their calipers because I drop them on the floor so many times that I screw them up before they would screw up on their own)...

...I should trust their jacks to hold a several ton vehicle up over that which currently houses my soul.

I have a 10 year old harbor freight Floor jack, it's been no less reliable than the 30 year old Craftsman that used to belong to my Dad

I wouldn't use either one without Jack stand though.

He said Harbor Freight, and you went into a tirade about how crappy Harbor freight is. I contend that they really aren't that bad, Their handtools are good (not great) and their floorjacks seem to better than advertised.

I have some pneumatic tools, no complaint.

However... I stay away from anything of theirs with an electrical plug. Haven't had a lot of luck there

...to accusing others of "tirades"...

Merry Christmas to all !!!

Wade,
...those sets of (dozens) of fittings of hex/Allen, Torx, variant-Torx, various Phillips styles, slot styles, and "security" head drivers - that fit into six-sided female/magnetized socket handle...

...Are any of those sets of a good enough level of quality that might be satisfactory to you ?

I put a whole bunch of torque (I'd categorize as "abuse") on one Torx head from those sets (way more than I would ever consider exerting on a band instrument screw, and way more times), and it doesn't seem that much worse for the level of abuse I offered it...

This was after putting up a c. 400' long four-rail "horse" fence (well over a thousand screws) - with an *impact driver - and it lasted through the entire assembly of that fence...That was over 1000 screws...mostly 2-1/2". There was also some 4"x4" square pattern wire 'goat' fence sandwiched within the wood fence, so compressing that wire between the posts and rails defined additional abuse of that Torx driver.

The set was one of those found in one of the "cheap stuff" bins in the front of a Tractor Supply.
____________________________
*They obviously aren't designed for use with an impact driver (ie. very likely: not particularly hard steel), because they don't feature that indention designed for an impact driver to "grab"...but my impact driver's head is also magnetized, so I was able to use it.
(I had purchased one pkg. - a pair - of high-grade/name-brand impact-driver-intended Torx drivers of that specific size, but I couldn't manage to lay eyes on that pkg. until after we finished assembling the entire fence.)

@LeMark I mostly agree that stuff (going beyond your statement) with moving parts (EVEN THOUGH I buy their calipers - but - again - as "two-or-three-months/disposable"...because I drop them too often to buy Brown & Sharpe or Starrett) is not good to buy from HF, but that's still a generalization...Some of their stuff (but hard to know which) is good. I've had good luck (as examples) with their smallest and next-size-up pancake compressors...and (yes?) all of those (regardless of make) are Chinese.
me...?? I've learned to completely avoid Dewalt.

bloke wrote:After you began this thread, Harbor Freight decided to email me to tell me that they are my "#1 Floor Jack Destination".

...so (since I really can't trust [even] their drill bits, and only buy their calipers because I drop them on the floor so many times that I screw them up before they would screw up on their own)...

...I should trust their jacks to hold a several ton vehicle up over that which currently houses my soul.

Further digression…

Joe, never, ever, ever trust ANY hydraulic jack. Ever. I’ve seen them fail from classic US-made Blue Point jacks (Snap-On) to flea-market cheapies. If I employed a mechanic and caught him working under a vehicle supported only by a hydraulic jack, I’d fire him out of self-protection.

Jack it up with hydraulics, but support it with proper jack stands. The HF jack stands I’ve seen are robustly designed, but my working load with any jack stand (even old Snap-In stands) is half the rating.

With the motorhome, I’ll usually stack timbers next to the jack stand where I’m working, if I’m going to be applying much force on tools.

I know you knew this already, but not everyone does.

Rick “be safe out there” Denney

LOL...*I never have trusted them @Rick Denney.

Even if I don't happen to have any bonafide jack stands at the ready, I will stack up (WIDE - like 12"-wide) planks (and no higher than four of them) to ACTUALLY support what was raised up. I'm not getting underneath ANYTHING held up by ANY type of "jack"...whether hydraulic or other type.

Even the behemoth JD z-trak...When I have to raise it up to remove the three blades for sharpening, I'll shove something underneath it BESIDE each of the 3 bottle-jacks. ...and I'm NOT going to use a block-and-tackle + tree branch to raise of the front of that thing, either. If "wind" can take town a tree branch, I believe Johnny Deere could, too.

________________________________
*...but some brands: I might (??) not even trust long enough to shove a jack stand (or boards) up next to them.
I believe TWO of those that we have are name-brand CURB TREASURE bottle jacks. (You know: when some old person dies, and their offspring - who don't know how to do a damned thing (other than post on fb) - go in and throw away everything other than the house, money, cars, and jewelry).