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…claiming that their 6/4 size tubas weigh 40 or 50 pounds…?

When I finished fixing up this young man’s Holton 345 B-flat - just because so many people seem to be so interested in what these things weigh, I weighed it.

It has not been “buffed down”, and I actually added its missing bottom bow cap back to it.

It weighs a scant 26 pounds.

I have another not-as-large tuba that weighs 24 pounds, and yet another (even smaller) that weighs 24-1/2 pounds.

Further, if you’re older and have sore joints (etc.) - and start talking about a “smaller tuba“, UNLESS your new/replacement tuba only has three valves, it’s probably going to be within two or three pounds of as heavy as the one that you own now. If you get rid of a very large four piston valve instrument and replace it with a medium large five rotary valve instrument, your replacement could easily end up weighing more.

Even a beast like the Conn 25J is only 31 pounds. A 20J is 28.

Some here know that I took a 2165 and basically converted the entire instrument to a model 6450 other than the bell, and I stuck one of those lathe-turned solid brass “tone rings“ into the bell (as the original 2165 instruments featured), which brightened up the sound closer to that of (probably, even brighter than) a 6450, and also added considerable weight. There are also several strips of metal around the outer bows that were factory installed. Further, that instrument now features six (two large rotary) valves.

It still weighs a scant 30 pounds.

I don't think it is a weight issue at all. Going back to a topic discussed several times...sometimes we hear with our eyes...big, shiny tuba at the back of the orchestra = big sound...the same goes for the perceived weight of a tuba. We see big horn and assume heavy, when in reality it isn't heavy at all. In my case, the old man (I will hit the half century mark this year, so still a baby in some of your eyes) tuba situation has more to do with comfort. I have a health condition in which one side benefit is joint pain. Especially in the hands and feet, but can manifest in other joints too. Certain activities are horribly painful for me, i.e. playing a big, lap sousaphone for more than 30 seconds. Other activities, i.e. being a martial arts instructor who is more than capable of throwing an NFL linebacker on his head, not nearly as painful. (OK so I have never thrown an NFL linebacker on his head but I have thrown a division one linebacker on his head). I also have the arms of a tyrannosaurus, so getting my arms around a lap sousaphone and holding it for long periods of time is not pleasant. Piston valves, no matter what size or type of spring used, will turn my hand into a painful little claw within a matter of minutes. On the other hand, a more slender tuba with a very short rotor throw feels pretty good. Over the years I have narrowed down a small list of horns that aren't painful for me to play, puts my hand in a comfortable position, and I can get my arms around comfortably. Most Miraphone models, 3/4 Rudy, and the Bill Bell MW. I now have a Mirafone 184 that checks all of the boxes. I enjoy playing again and I am relatively pain free when I do. So long rant even longer. I think some of my issues are the same others experience but they may boil it down to the horn being too heavy. My two cents...

Several months ago, while I was horn shopping, I saw on The Horn Guys web site a Josef Lidl “3/4” 4 valve rotary CC. It’s new old stock, apparently. In their lengthy description of the horn one thing they say is that it weighs 14.4 pounds, which they call “luxuriously light for a tuba”. I thought it looked like a pretty nice horn, especially at $3100. If it had been the BBb version I’d have been sorely tempted. At my age and stage in life I really don’t think I need the “challenge” of learning a new set of fingerings. Also, I have no idea how much shipping would have been from California to Pennsylvania. But if anyone reading this post is a fellow “old guy” (or girl) and already plays CC and is looking to go for a lighter smaller horn, I think this is worthy of consideration.

By the way, does anyone know the “official” spec weight of my new style King 2341?

Using the scale that I weigh myself on, my three valve York Bb Recording 26" bell is 32 Lbs. My other Bb upright tubas are around twenty. I did have a J25 that was 30 plus. So maybe I should take into account the bell. I could not get the J25 to sound as good as the York, and had another four valves tuba already, so it was passed on.

My surviving family member will sell my York after they pry it from my cold dead embrace,
CCC

People in marching bands love to give inflated numbers about how much their Sousaphones weighs. Frankly, I think those awful marching baritones/euphs that look like oversized mellophones look WAY harder to hold and require WAY more strength. I'm just a lazy ass who stands there doing nothing to hold up my instrument.

Now, tubas plus wooden cases... then maybe you're talking closer to 40 pounds or something? I remember for some reason in college having to haul two Conn sousas, in their wooden cases, uphill and across campus on a hot morning from one building to another. That sucked.

DonO. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:25 am By the way, does anyone know the “official” spec weight of my new style King 2341?

Short answer is no. Amazon puts its weight at 49lbs, but my guess is that's shipping weight. Anecdotal weight for an older two-piece 2341 with mouthpiece is 25lbs 4oz, so my guess is that a one-piece would be in the 20-22lbs range. I dimly recall my old Gnagey, which was similar to a KIng 2341, was around 21lbs.

The one that blows my mind is the giant Wessex Leviathan. It's a Holton 345-sized BBb compensating tuba that comes in two versions, either machine-made or hand-hammered from sheet brass. The hand-hammered version is listed as a mere 21 pounds. I bet it dents if you look at it sideways. But the hydraulically-formed version with thicker brass is just 27 pounds.

Not that this is important, but - were I coerced into wagering - I'd bet towards the high end of your range (if not a bit higher) on the "new style" King.

hrender wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:57 pm

DonO. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:25 am By the way, does anyone know the “official” spec weight of my new style King 2341?

Short answer is no. Amazon puts its weight at 49lbs, but my guess is that's shipping weight. Anecdotal weight for an older two-piece 2341 with mouthpiece is 25lbs 4oz, so my guess is that a one-piece would be in the 20-22lbs range. I dimly recall my old Gnagey, which was similar to a KIng 2341, was around 21lbs.

...

GC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:29 pm A 20J is 28.

18 of which are above the lead pipe!!

I "get" the 40/60/80 lbs. sacks of concrete for old geezers and little people to be able to deal with them, but would not "get" (as you state: "bloke is just too damn stupid") a 78.2 lbs. sack of concrete, and NOR would I "get" the choice ONLY between an 80 lbs. sack of GOOD concrete and a 60 lbs. sack of CRAPPY concrete - as the two perform equally well.



People who cannot easily move 80 lbs. sacks of concrete - via their own brute strength - are - somehow - able to move thousands-of-pounds automobiles thousands of miles.

bloke "There are ways to deal with obstacles without making epic sacrifices, and non-stupid engineers know this."

What are you on about, Bloke? Is this another whine about people who whine about cases?

(I'm suspecting that grocery-bag cart will fail utterly if someone puts an 80-pound back of concrete mix into it.)

My Holton weights 26 pounds, as I have reported in the past.

I haven't weight the Hirsbrunner, but if it's even an ounce lighter than the Holton, I'd be surprised. I schlep it all over the place in a Goetz Supersac bag.

My 186 when I owned it weight 18 pounds. My F tubas (both of them) weigh less. I don't know what the Eastman weighs, but it's not as light as it looks.

Speaking of the Eastman, which came in a perfectly decent hard case, which I don't use. Why don't I use it? It's not the weight. It's the fact that to actually lift it off the ground, I have to bend my arm at the elbow and carry the entire weight on one arm's biceps. The case is simply too tall, and I'm 6'-0". No pavement where I live, but stairs all over the place. Not using the wheels. Why does a tuba as small as a new-style 2341 need a case that comes up to my waist when sitting on the ground?

Back in the day, a German company made hard cases that held the tuba mouthpiece down instead of up, and that reduces the exterior dimensions of the case dramatically. @TubaRay used such a case with is 186 for decades until it completely fell apart.

Rick "routinely hauls 440 pounds of salt into the basement, two 40-pound bags at a time" Denney

This horn (on the left) weighs 35 lbs, and I think it’s the heaviest 6/4 I’ve ever held (next to one of the Chicago York tubas, don’t know which one).

It plays incredibly lively, considering its weight.

Yorkboy “desperately trying to keep in shape so I can keep on playing things like this”

Ha !
I roped in yet another engineer !!!

No. the collapsible cart (with the rectangular carrying area) would be to move a c. 24 lb. tuba (plus its 8 lb bag) from an automobile into a rehearsal or performance venue (which - at least, to me - seems more sensible than selling off something very nice - like a Miraphone model 186, and buying something to replace it that - weighing a bit less - is "pretty good" - such as an Old model O-99, in order to carry around a few less lbs. of tuba).

I particularly appreciate the York picture (above), because the stated weight (of the B-flat) supplies very strong evidence that (though everything is shorter, with the tuba on the right) that the tuba ON the right was not always a "featherweight" tuba (as the current trend seems to be to produce "copies" of it fabricated of Cerveny-esque .5mm sheet brass, rather than realizing that it was formerly a satin-silver finish tuba, and there are plenty of old pictures to be found, demonstrating this), and that - decades ago - it's previous owner (sadly) allowed someone to absolutely "buff the $h!t out of it" - (again: sadly) buffing away "lbs. of tuba".

I would imagine that - originally -the tuba on the right (rather than - and I've held/played it - it's "might blow away in the breeze" weight) might have originally weighed 31.5 (??) lbs. vs. your longer-everything B-flat version, which you report weighing in at 35 lbs.

I also suspect that part of the reason that the Donatelli guy may not have been interested in screwing around with that thing (selling it off to a student after not too much time passed) is because
(and no, he was NOT a "fat guy", as been wrong purPORTed)
- It weighed over 30 lbs.
- The subsequent Conn probably only weighed 22 or so lbs. (an ACTUAL significant difference of c. 10 lbs.)
- The subsequent Conn was easier to play in tune.


With it's very WHITE appearance - in this picture (just as with current freshly bead-blasted and silver plated instruments), I strongly suspect that this picture was posed with the instrument when it was VERY new.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:32 pm Now, tubas plus wooden cases... then maybe you're talking closer to 40 pounds or something? I remember for some reason in college having to haul two Conn sousas, in their wooden cases, uphill and across campus on a hot morning from one building to another. That sucked.

I weighed the Martin and its recording bell in their two Taylor-made cases, and the combined weight was around 78-80lbs. It'd possibly be more for a Conn 2XJ. I recall walking home from high school (~2 miles) on separate trips with a King silver souasphone and a Besson 3v comp BBb, and the Martin seems worse. Of course, the two experiences are ~45 years apart.

Even my small MTS case - in which I transport the compact Holton B-flat - weighs 20 pounds.
Tuba cases are not lightweight, but most of us only use them occasionally, and nearly all of us have resigned ourselves to using semi-protective bags - which almost always weigh less than 10 pounds.

If I end up with some sort of back, knee or hip problems - yet can still play, I’m going to do everything I can to figure out how to keep the instruments that I have, rather than getting rid of them and replacing them with compromise instruments.

Yes, that’s it for me.

I am looking for ways to work with my tremor to keep playing, but that does not mean compromise instruments.

Although, I still do have that fiberglass Martin, which may weigh as much as 10 pounds. :)

Rick “strength isn’t the problem” Denney

I would really like to play the Martin fiberglass tuba.

Even if it is disappointing, it won’t be a disappointment.

I feel like I saw one in Memphis - when I was barely 14 years old - in something that lasted for a few years - for junior high students called the “all city band”.

My memories of that little escape from school is of the stench of sour mop, the odors (I can’t really classify them as “aromas“) of cooking school cafeteria food, the typical too hot indoor winter school temperatures, another student’s father rescuing a couple of us by taking us across the street from that school to the Krystal, the color and odor of Leblanc valve oil – which was identical to Blue Juice, and a little kid sitting next to me with a brass colored fiberglass tuba.

I recall absolutely nothing about either the conductor or the music we played. I don’t even remember what instrument I was playing myself, though I would have to guess that it was probably a Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone.