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For many Music Ed majors, an occasional public spanking is needed to ensure that you do not suck as a teacher before you even leave school.

I will drop this here and you all can chew on it and "discuss" it all you like. I don't care. I am 100% correct and if you disagree you are 100% wrong. I do not see many things in stark black and white like this, but there is no wiggle room, no space for you to waffle or make excuses or try to validate your opinion on this. You don't know a damned thing about teaching yet, so listen up and learn something:

If you do not take your private lessons (on whatever your major instrument might be) more seriously than ANY OTHER CLASS YOU TAKE IN SCHOOL you will never amount to much as a teacher. Period. There is no room for debate in this.

Your major instrument and those hour-long weekly attempts to improve ARE the foundation of your experience as a teacher. This is true now. It will be true the day you retire.

If you think that you don't need to take your lessons absolutely seriously, that you won't be playing, that you will be conducting: YOU ARE WRONG!

First of all, you almost *never* get to conduct more than the most basic sort of painfully lame first semester conducting class stuff. Most of the time you will beat simple time to keep the kids together. If you *do* get to "conduct" it will only come after you have spent YEARS of your life building up a band program where the kids can READ well enough to give you the time needed to actually polish both them and yourself. If you, like many reading this, start out as a middle school director or a "team teacher" who has a beginner class, your "conducting" will consist primarily of you beating on the podium with a drumstick. If your program has "money" you might get to "conduct" by using that drumstick on a "gock block".

So let's not be arrogant about being some sort of miniature Fritz Reiner; "conducting" (beyond what I have described above) will be so far down your Job Description as to be a joke. No one cares about your deeply personal interpretation of "Pentland Hills". No one. The kids need you to stop flailing about and teach them.

That comes back to your private lessons being the most important part of your degree. How you play your horn likely displays the apex of your personal abilities as a musician. Your performance labs are THE MOST ADVANCED PERFORMING YOU WILL PROBABLY EVER DO (in most of your cases). This is absolute truth, whether you want to believe it or not. And you are able to play at that level because of what you learn with your professor — in their studio — one on one — an hour each week. Your lessons will inform every aspect of your education and your later work as an educator.

So how on earth do you think you will be anything other than a half-assed educator if you did not bother to take in as much education as you could in your field when in school? And be certain about this: your private lessons give you the polish you will use as a teacher to polish the skills of your students. Your private lessons give you firsthand experience with interpretation, with fundamental skills and the discipline to hone them. Your lessons ARE what make you able to teach. They will be about 150 hours of individual instruction with an expert musician and performer that you should have spent at least 1500 hours preparing for. What you learn in your private lessons is the bank account from which you will withdraw every day as a teacher. You do not learn these things in conducting class, form and analysis, orchestration, brass/woodwinds/strings/percussion tech classes. These tell you how to communicate what you know to players of other instruments. Your lessons tell you WHAT to communicate to them.

Your private lessons are the foundation of everything you know as a musician, and that in turn is the foundation of everything you need to know as a teacher. Without your lessons, you might as well be a substitute teacher for all the good you will do your kids. It is about the kids learning something new from you every day and not about your ictus or how marvelous you look in your tux.

Trust me. I know a lot of terrible teachers who cannot play their way out of a paper bag. I also know some very fine teachers who regularly sub with the orchestra or who are in the freelance pool around here. These very fine educators are very fine musicians first and foremost. And that does not come from skipping lessons or not preparing every week as though your life depends on it.

Take ALL your classes seriously, but treat your lessons as the single most important thing you work on while a student, or you will never be much of a teacher.

Carry on.

Part of this is like a lot of “education” majors wherein the school has a bunch of pedagogy classes that don’t matter much in contrast to the students simply needing to understand their subject matter better. Math, physics, biology, etc all have the same dichotomy when it comes to students. The “real” majors know the content leaps and bounds better than the education majors, and when those “real” majors do decide to teach, they are far better at teaching because the content is far more a part of their being.

My friends from college that are the most successful directors and music educators are also the ones that were the best players. The guys and gals that put in the time in the practice room, played in tons of ensembles, and performed often. Nothing is more humbling than playing in front of your peers and professors. Those skills of public playing pay off for any public interactions, imo. I give presentations of complex math and physics models fairly regularly. Presenting to large groups (as large as 500) of professional peers is still easier than hauling my butt on stage for an hour long senior recital.

Basically, I agree 100% and think this can be extended to any academic discipline. Competency is key.

Truth! Chiming in as a retired music educator with a Bachelors in Music Ed and a Master of Music with concentration in education. Your private lessons combined with regular recitals are where you learn the process of how to excel on a personal level and pass that along to your students. But along with that, I would submit that a close second to the importance of your major instrument study is to learn versatility. Your piano skills are important. You WILL use them. And your methods classes in the instruments that aren’t your major- woodwinds, brass, strings, percussion, and even voice- you will use those to. When you are group teaching, sometimes the best way to get something across as to how you want it played is to demonstrate it. If you don’t have your own flute to play it for your flute section, you have to SING it. How are you going to do that if you never learned how to sing in pitch? I had a band director friend who, for every rehearsal, had a flute, clarinet, and trumpet beside her for demonstrations. Good idea, but I never went that far. However, for much of my career I taught orchestral strings, and always kept a violin and a viola by my side for demonstrations. As a music educator, yes, your major instrument is your most important thing. You are a musician first. But there is a lot more to the skill set. Don’t get me started on music theory, form and analysis, music history, sight singing, dictation, methods, ear training, conducting, on and on and on. It’s all important. Yes, as a teacher you’ll use it all. You have to be ready. To get a job at some of these school districts, you have to be able to competently teach band AND strings AND chorus AND general music classes.

Besides coursework being epically important, it’s also woefully inadequate to prepare people for this profession.
Time should be carved out to obtain “community band level mastery” (OK…perhaps “third trumpet“ and “third clarinet“) of most all of the wind band instruments - and/or bowed string instruments.

Particular attention should be paid in psychology class, because (yes) people (students) think/react in so many different ways - and some parents are nuts (or addicted), which subsequently causes their children behave like nuts.
The one semester of student teaching it’s just not enough apprentice time, either. A lot of volunteer work (previous to that) should be devoted to helping out band directors (even just “grunt work“ - to put oneself in a classroom, viewing it from an adult perspective) at various programs, and this should include all types of programs - from troubled/struggling ones - to mediocre ones - to unbelievably smooth-running and and fabulously-funded ones.
It’s difficult to motivate oneself to do all these things beyond what is minimally required for an (even “summa cum laude” awarded) degree program, but it IS possible. An additional challenge is that - as time has moved on, the slower (culturally) American children have been encouraged to grow up, and today many college children behave about as grown-up as 12-year-olds did, several decades ago.
Age 16 is when people are allowed to operate vehicles, and that’s also the time - if not earlier - to put away childish behaviors and thoughts. NOT needless to say (ie. important to say), there’s just no room in anyone’s life for “recreational” substance abuse, and people in this age range are encouraged – more than any other age range – to buy into these distractions.

I’ve spoken before about the “major instrument” thing. My belief (and others vehemently disagree) that the reason this is included in these degree programs is because (again: “I believe”) this might be the “teddy bear” or “Linus’ blanket” that glues people to this degree program - as to why these degree programs are set up in this way (ie. “pretend performance degrees”), but the fact is that those woefully inadequate required “lip service” classes - which teach all the OTHER instruments - are JUST as important - if not MORE so. Sure: The “major instrument“ argument is that someone should reach a level of competence on at least one instrument - in order to be able to teach how to perform music, but there are just too many who graduate not understanding the ins and outs of most of the other instruments until years later - if ever at all.
Further, I have encountered more than one superb teacher/conductor who weren’t particularly good at playing any individual instrument. (These people are not “rare exceptions“, but whatever...)
>>> Most everyone will disagree with me on my point of view re: the “major instrument” thing, so just use these last remarks as an EXTRA encouragement to study all of the instruments that will be taught - when on the job. (I know many band directors who took the other instruments home from their schools - after they were hired - and “caught up“ on them.)

Wade typed a lot of words, and I typed a lot of words…all which only REALLY mean “Don’t screw around in school.”

Not to derail the original topic, but if you are a music ed major using your major as a "fall back" degree in case you don't get that major symphony job you have been working so hard for, seriously consider a different major. Teaching is not something to "fall back" on.

So... what y'all are saying is:

"You have to be proficient enough to interpret-then-teach music and music concepts, and you have to be proficient enough to teach the students how to play their instruments. Work relentlessly and be incredibly serious in these areas, as your career depends on it."

Sounds gospel to me.

I believe at one of the reasons people react so very strongly to some of my posts is because they are often blunt, and some people think that children (including children up to age 24 or so) should not be spoken to in blunt ways.

Here are yet other things that are sadly often true:
- Administrators and school boards may not be particularly interested in your program.
- Almost no one in any industry is going to care very much about how hard you work.
- People may attempt to or succeed in replace/replacing you just because their buddy wants your job.
- Nothing is ever “fair”.
- The pursuing of excellence only has the purpose of doing so for its own sake, and for the satisfaction (entertainment?) of the person who pursues it. For most everyone else, about the biggest reaction to it will be “hmm”, or - at best - “wow”.

Reminds me of the old joke “Working here is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling but nobody notices”.

I would encourage all future and present music teachers to NEVER give up on the pursuit of excellence! It is a worthy goal in and of itself and if more people picked up the mantle of excellence, the world would be a better place. Instill it in your students too. Teach them to never give up. That’s really the best goal of music education IMHO. If we are honest with ourselves, very few of our students become life long musicians, and even fewer music majors. That’s not the point of music education. It’s to teach students how to meet a challenge and prevail. It’s all about the process. Music educations makes people better. We all know that I think.

Another thought I had on the topic. Being a music ed major at my school required more in-department credit hours than any other major on campus, pre-med included. It was a lot of work. When I came in as a freshman we had about 25 music ed majors. At graduation we had 9 that actually got a diploma. Everyone else had either left school or changed majors. I knew these folks, and I know for a fact that it was NEVER their ability in their major area- instrument or voice- that made them give up. They were all fine, talented performers. The thing that was their stumbling block was always course work. Theory for some, history for others, and so forth. He problem was, they all thought competency at playing or singing was enough. They were GENUINELY surprised that the course work was so difficult.

One of the best band directors I’ve had the pleasure of knowing, Nedo Pandolfi, was primarily proficient on trumpet and horn. He had a horrible singing voice (in terms of timbre), but was a consummate musician. He had the benefit of being a professional musician before becoming (and while being) a band director.

I’m not convinced that one has to be able to demonstrate playing on various instruments at the high school level. What Nedo had was impeccable hearing for articulation and intonation and the ability to concisely express what he wanted and how to fix things.

He also relied upon his musical community to support those other instruments he was not proficient in. Lessons were had by most, if not all, of his students, in what was (and still is) a rural community.

His methods were demanding yet highly rewarding. His students (and offspring) have obtained high degrees of musical success.

He was an expert musician and knew the limits of his knowledge and chose to supplement his students properly.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:01 am I believe at one of the reasons people react so very strongly to some of my posts is because they are often blunt, and some people think that children (including children up to age 24 or so) should not be spoken to in blunt ways.

Those people would be reality-denying dip$#!+ enablers that help no one.
____________


Expounding further on reality...

Here are yet other things that are sadly often true:
- Administrators and school boards may not be particularly interested in your program.

A large number of administrators are (and traditionally have been) coaches - they often operate on different wavelengths, and for most, they don't know about music and don't give a flying f___. Chances are good that sometime in your career you'll encounter the attitude of:

- "Mind your place, little band director."
- "Why do you spend so much on repairs?"
- "Why do instruments cost so much? Can't we do without them?"
- "What's wrong with the instruments we bought 30 years ago?"
- "The band doesn't need to go on trips. They don't do anything."
- ""The band is fine in their old, dilapidated building. Let's tear down our perfectly-functioning football stadium and build a multi-million dollar one just like XXX school district."
- "IT'S JUST BAND."

You will likely encounter some really good administrators also. Just understand you, band, orchestra, music, etc. ain't as important to others as it is to you. And it never takes priority over FOOBAAH (a favorite blokeism).

- Almost no one in any industry is going to care very much about how hard you work.

That's true for every occupation. You don't get special recognition for going above and beyond. Despite what young entitled folk have been raised to falsely believe, you won't get a pat on the back for doing your basic job. Life ain't about deserves. The world owes you nothing - it was here first. There is no castle, you don't have a crown, you're not that damned special. No one is. Get over your self-appointed little princess @$$ and get busy.

- People may attempt to or succeed in replace/replacing you just because their buddy wants your job.

This happens. Favoritism happens. Underhanded stuff happens. CYA, CYA, CYA. Keep your eyes open and mouth shut.

- Nothing is ever “fair”.

Life ain't fair. And no, you cannot legislate it into existence. Shut up, work hard, and do your job.

- The pursuing of excellence only has the purpose of doing so for its own sake, and for the satisfaction (entertainment?) of the person who pursues it. For most everyone else, about the biggest reaction to it will be “hmm”, or - at best - “wow”.

Do what you do with excellence, honesty, and integrity. The ignorant public (or "those" administrators) may not notice or care, but it usually keeps a paycheck rolling in. Your reputation will take care of itself. And your students will be better for it.

DonO. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:33 am Reminds me of the old joke “Working here is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling but nobody notices”.

When I hear this joke, I always imagine a picture of Charlie Brown in a black suit. AAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!

I guess I should have clarified. I don’t think you need proficiency on a variety of instruments to demonstrate on a high school level. High school students would probably be insulted and most of them probably play better than the director in every case except the director’s major instrument. For demonstration purposes I was speaking of beginner through middle school level. It is useful for any director at that level to show a student what a proper characteristic tone on their instrument sounds like, and show how to achieve it. That way you avoid the dreaded clarinet player who either eats the whole mouthpiece and honks like a goose or bites the tip of the mouthpiece and squeaks everything.

Spending serious amounts of time with various types of wind instruments - as well as various types of fiddles, even if abysmally failing at ALL of them – leads to far more understanding of them.

Again “woodwind class“, “strings class“, “percussion class“, and “piano class“ are nothing more than lip service,

and are little more than equipping a person for a gun fight who has attended a two-hour “permit to carry“ class.

“ Rubank advanced” levels – on as many instruments as possible – will/would prove to be remarkably helpful, I believe…

… and I’m avoiding discussing vocal music, because I don’t pretend to be able to coach a choir…
I’ve actually done it a little bit and was not ridiculed, but I’m not foolish enough to rate that as success.

I must respectfully disagree with you, bloke. I consider my methods classes (brass, woodwinds, strings, percussion, voice, and piano) some of the most relevant courses I took. Some of my classmates, it’s true, did not take them seriously, but I did. I got a kick out of trying a variety of instruments, learning how to make a good sound, learning the fingerings, and at least being able to get Twinkle Twinkle out of it in a recognizable fashion. The only thing that really kicked my butt was the double reeds. Never got the hang of either oboe or bassoon snd it beats the hell out of me how anyone can play music on those things. Fortunately I went through an entire career without having to teach either of those! I can remember times I freaked out clarinet players by telling one of them that they played a wrong note. And I would be right, snd they would know they were busted. They would ask me how I could possibly pick out their wrong note out of the whole section. Simple, I would say, you had the wrong fingers down! Long story short, if a music teacher did not do well in methods, they will not be successful teaching beginners or middle school groups. That teacher had better hope they get a high school position with a bunch of kids who already can play at a high level. And if they do get a position like that, they had better bend over backwards thanking the feeder director who started those kids out right.

Rubanks Advanced/ right! I showed up at my first college level lesson with both volumes. Thought I was hot stuff. Professor said ok, we can use these for a while, but order Blazhevich and Bordogni right away so we can get started on them as soon as possible!

I loved Bassoon class. A few of us in the class were jazzers, and we discovered that you could walk a pretty decent bass line on them. My least favorite class was flute. For the life of me, I could never make a good sound on one.

Oboe class was a weird one for me. It always surprised me how little air they take and when I would breath, I had to breath out first.

You misunderstood me. I hope this clarifies:

- All of those classes are extremely important, but are rushed and inadequate. “Lip service“ refers to the inadequate requirements of passing the classes, and not to the attitudes of the students who take the classes.

- “Rubank advanced” is the level (and I was just using this book as an example of a level) to which I believe all who receive instrumental music emphasis Music Ed degrees should be able to perform (prior to being awarded their degrees) on ALL instruments they subsequently teach.

My standards for a lot of things are pretty high, to the point that many consider me to be “weird”. Being said, standards have been lowered and lowered and lowered on just about everything, whereas most people can attain very high standards, once those standards are made very clear and once they are set (in stone).
People love to complain about “crappy“ this/that/the other/everything, but when someone suggests raising standards of most anything quite a bit higher, most people then begin bleating.
I’ve had more than a few people tell me that they trust their 16-year-old children with cell phones and their 19-year-old children with cars, because they are “honor students“. I laugh and cry at the same time.
That having been said, 75 years ago a typical 16-year-old would have been plenty grown-up enough to handle either of those things.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:37 pm (snip) That having been said, 75 years ago a typical 16-year-old would have been plenty grown-up enough to handle either of those things.

One of the things that I loved about my work at the local library was digitizing old yearbooks. When you read the ones from the turn of the last century it becomes very clear that kids today are nowhere near as accomplished as they were then. Sometimes as we get older it's easy to think this way but then wonder if it's just our point of view that has shifted, but but when you see it in print it's undeniable.

And when you listen to high school band recordings from 40-50 years ago it's clear that (imho) hs bands played harder music and sounded better at it. It's sad.

My perspective as a retired school band director:

It is definitely true that one needs to be a good musician to teach music well. Other skills required- verbal communication, good character and judgement, organization, determination, ability to motivate, and a real passion for our art.

I suspect I went further in performance than the majority of my band colleagues. Was I a "better" band director than them? I don't think so. We had a number of the premier military band players teach in our school system. They went further than I did in performance. Were they "better" band directors than all of us? Hearing the results, I would have to say no. Many of them were terrific, though.

I think there are very few jobs that are more difficult than this one; the best ones, of course, make it look easy.

Mr. Bloke and LibraryMark,

I do not share your pessimism about the current generation. My sons grew up in the same area I did and the level of achievement continues to grow. School music programs around here are bigger and better than ever. I have seen several truly prodigious teenage brass players perform at a level I never saw growing up. Academically, the kids take harder courses earlier than when I grew up in the same school system.

If your own communities are deteriorating, I am sorry. It must be painful to watch. I do have concerns about our society- I see problems so severe and pervasive, it scares me. I will probably write about it in a future post.

sweaty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:20 pm Mr. Bloke and LibraryMark,

I do not share your pessimism about the current generation. My sons grew up in the same area I did and the level of achievement continues to grow. School music programs around here are bigger and better than ever. I have seen several truly prodigious teenage brass players perform at a level I never saw growing up. Academically, the kids take harder courses earlier than when I grew up in the same school system.

If your own communities are deteriorating, I am sorry. It must be painful to watch. I do have concerns about our society- I see problems so severe and pervasive, it scares me. I will probably write about it in a future post.

Thank you very much for a different perspective than everything that has been posted above. I look forward to your future post on this subject.