Can anyone ID these?

[Jperry1466]

Two Conn tubas sitting in a music store, one looks like it has a Sousaphone valve set grafted on to it, the other has original Conn short action valves.

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Store owner says the lady is the daughter or granddaughter of someone who "used to play with the Dallas Symphony". I don't know if that would be Everett Gilmore or someone before him, but these were in his collection, and she wants to sell them. I'd be glad to help and list them in the sale section but need some help with ID. I may have to go back and get serial numbers and maybe more pictures.

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[matt g]

Are those also sousaphone bells?

[York-aholic]

The photo isn’t very high resolution but I think the silver, grafted on sousaphone valve cluster is from either a York or a Holton .750 bore sousaphone.

[Jperry1466]

Are those also sousaphone bells?

I don't know, but they do look pretty large for recording bells.

[Jperry1466]

The photo isn’t very high resolution but I think the silver, grafted on sousaphone valve cluster is from either a York or a Holton .750 bore sousaphone.

I was thinking Holton, myself, but the music store repairman thinks they are from a Conn, obviously not short action.

[the elephant]

I don't recall either of these in Ev's house, up in his attic, or in his SMU studio.

The first one is correct: 2xJ body flipped with York sousaphone cluster.

Ev's granddaughter's name is Elizabeth, and I seriously doubt she would be selling these in this manner.

I bet it was a community orchestra-type guy in the Dallas area. I have met many guys who told me they had a friend who used to play in my orchestra when I know for a fact this is not the case. It happens all the time.

[Jperry1466]

I don't recall either of these in Ev's house, up in his attic, or in his SMU studio.

The first one is correct: 2xJ body flipped with York sousaphone cluster.

Ev's granddaughter's name is Elizabeth, and I seriously doubt she would be selling these in this manner.

I bet it was a community orchestra-type guy in the Dallas area. I have met many guys who told me they had a friend who used to play in my orchestra when I know for a fact this is not the case. It happens all the time.

Thanks. That is good information. This lady's name is Susan, and she lives in Granbury, Tx. I suspect you are right about the community orchestra, but I really don't feel like arguing with the repair guy. And he only knows what she told him. These were supposedly "practice tubas", but if nothing else, they're pretty cool. She says she is selling them to pay for his funeral expenses. I know Mr. Gilmore died in 2005, though, so the timeline doesn't work out.

I'm thinking 20J or 24J on the one with upright valves, but someone will know better than me.

[York-aholic]

Yes, the upright valved one is a 20J.

The other one’s cluster looks York sousaphone to me due to the ultra short upper first valve ‘loop’ with the vast majority of the tubing being below the casings. Holton also made sousaphone clusters configured like that at one point. With the difference coming down to just the style of braces, the low res picture is the limiting factor.

[bloke]

major awards !!!

Trying to interpret the silver plated paste-on valveset with my phone’s screen and my out of focus morning eyes, I’m guessing that it’s a York valve section.

Other people - with more experience with old Holton and old York - have already posted.

[LargeTuba]

I would purchase it just for the York Sousaphone valves.

[Kirley]

No argument here in regards to the IDs.

I also agree that those are probably Conn sousa bells instead of their original recording bells. The sousa bells are closer to 90 degrees while the recording bells shoot a little more up to give you somewhat of a chance of seeing what might be going on in front of you.

[Jperry1466]

I would purchase it just for the York Sousaphone valves.

It is for sale. She is asking $900 for one, $1100 for the other - not sure which is which. I have her contact info if anyone is interested. Price seems a little steep to me, but they both supposedly play well. I will take my mpc next time and play them to see.

I will also get some better pics and post those. And thanks, everyone, for all the good information.

[Yorkboy]

The top one looks like they didn’t bother to “reverse” the bugle (wire guards on the front in places where you’d never be likely to have any denting).

I will buck the tide and say the valve set is also Conn (low resolution, yet the brace I can sort of see (lower 3rd circuit) looks like an older Conn “fixed” (not “adjustable”) brace; and the brace feet appear to be round, which I’ve never seen on any stock York tuba.

[York-aholic]

The top one looks like they didn’t bother to “reverse” the bugle (wire guards on the front in places where you’d never be likely to have any denting).

I will buck the tide and say the valve set is also Conn (low resolution, yet the brace I can sort of see (lower 3rd circuit) looks like an older Conn “fixed” (not “adjustable”) brace; and the brace feet appear to be round, which I’ve never seen on any stock York tuba.

Yes, the braces are throwing me off too. I just don’t remember any Conn sousas that that went directly into the upper crook, without any straight tubing (ie the crook attaches to the upper 1st casing port).

[bloke]

re: “Dallas Symphony”
This sort of exaggeration regarding musicians’ stature is common.
I’m not in the Memphis Symphony, but I have played enough services with them to equal several seasons. (My friend has been the tuba player there since about 1970, when I was in what is now called middle school.)
A couple of decades ago, a post-middle-aged woman and her husband showed up in Memphis (who play horn “so-so”). She busily conned parents (seeking private instruction) into believing that she was really something special, and was telling everyone that she played with the Memphis Symphony. To this day, she has never played with that orchestra, and - I would readily wager - will never.

[Jperry1466]

As promised, hopefully some better photos. Thought I took a pic of the back of the one with the Sousa valve set, but it isn't there. I do agree that those definitely look like Sousaphone bells.

[bloke]

I would now say (but would not wager) that the valveset on the Frankentuba is York with a couple of Reynolds braces and a (original to the instrument?) Conn main slide.

Particularly if they are 26 inches, thick, and free of cracks. there are people who would gladly swap their 2XJ recording bells for those sousaphone bells.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but - regardless of provenance, I just don’t see a lot of monetary value represented there.

[Jperry1466]

The 90 degree turn in the bell clinches the decision that it’s a sousaphone bell. The regular 2xJ bells were canted at roughly 75 degrees or so.

[Yorkboy]

Yes, I agree with bloke, that valve set IS definitely a York set (clear picture)!

[Yorkboy]

As promised, hopefully some better photos. Thought I took a pic of the back of the one with the Sousa valve set, but it isn't there. I do agree that those definitely look like Sousaphone bells.

Yes, that valve-set is definitely York - thanks for the picture!


FWIW:

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