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Is there a stainless equivalent to a Conn 2? I can't even seem to find the specs for it.

Do you HAVE a Conn 2 sitting around, Terry?

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:20 pm Do you HAVE a Conn 2 sitting around, Terry?

I do. I can measure the cup diameter, but don't know how to measure the bore, cup depth, shape, etc.

Stryk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:36 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:20 pm Do you HAVE a Conn 2 sitting around, Terry?

I do. I can measure the cup diameter, but don't know how to measure the bore, cup depth, shape, etc.

Would you be interested in mailing it to me?
I looked around, and - right at the moment - there isn't one of those sitting around here.
The worst that could happen (outside of it getting lost - YET they are NOT uncommon) would be to tell you that I can't come close to matching it, sending it back with apologies.

Absolutely - will send it out Monday or Tuesday. Thanks!

‘k…
Sorry I don’t already have one laying around. I know it is in the 7B/Helleberg II “family”, but all of that stuff has its minor particulars.

I think that the Giddings Williwaw and Diablo are in the ballpark. Maybe the Boston Brass mouthpiece as well. I haven't played the Williwaw, but I have tried the Diablo and Boston Brass. They seemed very similar to a Conn Helleberg 7b, but with better "for me" rim profiles. This is just a "best guess" if the Conn 2 is similar to a Helleberg 7b

OK. Go ahead and send it to Dan.

I had a Diablo for while. It has a more rounded cup shape, and the rim opening is wider, so unsurprisingly it doesn't play like a Conn.

I see their web description claims a "funnel cup". I guess that characteristic is fair game, because no commonly available tuba mouthpiece is strictly conical, and every mouthpiece is wider at the top than it is at the bottom and could reasonably be used as a funnel. Still ... sometimes I wonder how they get away with it - Giddings & Webster, Denis Wick and everyone else who does the same thing. For anyone who cares, Conn and in some cases Schilke make the tuba mouthpiece models I've seen that define that "funnel" shape, and have the sound that comes with it.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:40 pm OK. Go ahead and send it to Dan.

Why You're the expert here A "best guess"

donn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:45 pm I had a Diablo for while. It has a more rounded cup shape, and the rim opening is wider, so unsurprisingly it doesn't play like a Conn.

I see their web description claims a "funnel cup". I guess that characteristic is fair game, because no commonly available tuba mouthpiece is strictly conical, and every mouthpiece is wider at the top than it is at the bottom and could reasonably be used as a funnel. Still ... sometimes I wonder how they get away with it - Giddings & Webster, Denis Wick and everyone else who does the same thing. For anyone who cares, Conn and in some cases Schilke make the tuba mouthpiece models I've seen that define that "funnel" shape, and have the sound that comes with it.

I didn't really care for the Diablo or the Boston Brass mouthpieces that I tried However, they must work for some people. A Conn 2 never seemed that much of a funnel to me either At least the chewed up ones that I have seen/played. The Conn "Chief", at least the one that I have seen definitely seemed like a funnel I'm not a mouthpiece expert, I would be the freak jury Joe is referring to At least on this matter

.

I’ve always suspected that Schilke may have manufactured the Conn mouthpieces from that era. Others have stated that they believe it was the other way around, but since Schilke continued to offer tuba mouthpieces with that exterior shape after Conn stopped offering their tuba mouthpieces (1 - 2 - 3 - 4) in that shape, I tend to believe that it is possible that Schilke made the Conn tuba mouthpieces during that time period.

The next time I have a chance to pick up a cheap Conn 2, I should probably do that. I keep a few “reference” mouthpieces here, but don’t get carried away with that objective/collection.

I seem to recall that Schilke started copying the Miraphone mouthpiece exterior shape around the time that they first began to copy the Miraphone C4, but I don’t have any thing to go on other than rough memories, and I also don’t really see that this matters.

tofu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:37 pm I've got both a Conn 2 & a Schilke 67 from 1970 the one with the same exterior look as the Conn 2. I haven't used either in a long time, but I would say they are very similar both in rim shape and interior dimensions.

To me the Schilke 67 is a hair larger than the Conn 2, and mine plays a little different in a way that I guess has something to do with the innards. The 67 is the only Schilke I know of that (sometimes) was made with that external shape - mine is like Conn Improved Precision, where the shank was set off from the cup flare with a little step, reportedly starting 1958.

I've never seen a Conn Chief, but the Conn 1 was reportedly similar, and it is indeed radically conical, though not rigorously. Certain people get upset if it's included in that category, though, and I guess that's fair enough - since none are rigorously conical, we just need a point of reference, and that is certainly the classic Helleberg. Interesting though, that for playing, I can barely tell the Conn 1 from my Schilke 67 - the two play similar.

Ivan Giddings can copy a mouthpiece in stainless steel

Conn Chief, Conn 1, and Holton 52 are all three very long (basically) straight-cone cups with huge throats and straight-taper back-bores.
(At least, all that I've examined allowed for a narrow straight edge to follow down both the cup interiors and back-bore interiors.)
They are also oversized, being a full 2" o.d. (outside edge of the rim) by just about 4" in length.

If someone despises shimmer in their sound (and only seeks "bass" - as if a bass guitar amplifier with the "treble" and "mid-range" knobs or slides turned/pulled to 1 or 0 - and year-old round-wound strings to boot) that's the family of mouthpieces to consider.

One must credit Conn - re: those funnel-exterior c. 1960's (plus more years) era mouthpieces:

The models 1, 2, 3, and 4 were all VASTLY different from each other.

Jim Kelly has also begun making stainless mouthpieces the last few years (not sure if any of them are in the ballpark of the size you're looking for).

https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/stainl ... /index.asp

The very first thing I did (as soon as Terry began this thread) was to sort through the descriptions of the four of them, and none of them seem to be the ticket.

ParLawGod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:39 pm Jim Kelly has also begun making stainless mouthpieces the last few years (not sure if any of them are in the ballpark of the size you're looking for).

https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/stainl ... /index.asp

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:04 pm The very first thing I did (as soon as Terry began this thread) was to sort through the descriptions of the four of them, and none of them seem to be the ticket.

ParLawGod wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:39 pm Jim Kelly has also begun making stainless mouthpieces the last few years (not sure if any of them are in the ballpark of the size you're looking for).

https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/stainl ... /index.asp

Next time I'm on a gig with him I'll have to petition him for one :)

LeMark wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:53 am Ivan Giddings can copy a mouthpiece in stainless steel

This is probably your shortest path to a stainless Conn 2. If you want a smaller hellberg-style mp in stainless, another vendor may get you there, but it won't be identical to a Conn 2.